It’s just like in the movies, so what’s the problem?

If an advanced, space-traveling race were to try to warn us of a real, impending danger to our world and to do so without directly interfering in it, how might they go about it?

Just like in the movies, might they take a very calculated approach and insert just enough information – and controversy – into our awareness so as to prompt at least a few thinking people to pay attention and delve into it?

In the movies there’s usually some kind of a cryptic message, mathematical formula, or (only in the movies) a radio signal. And some intrepid person, scientist or otherwise (think Richard Dreyfuss) gets about the task of unscrambling or deciphering the message that will ultimately reveal to humanity that…we are not alone.

So why can’t real life be just like the movies to the extent that scientists involved in the search for extraterrestrial life would display at least as much curiosity and interest in following up on any such evidence. But what even remotely comparable evidence is there, one might ask?

Well we’ve been publishing the evidence and information in the Meier case for years, as well as sending it to any and all scientists, journalists, publications, news outlets, forums, etc., as we can. While there are some courageous, highly credible scientific experts who’ve analyzed, corroborated and authenticated it, the mainstream…everything has remained comfortably non-responsive. But at what cost to all of us?

The Red Meteor aka Asteroid Apophis

One specific example is the information from Meier and the Pleajren about what they called the Red Meteor, aka asteroid Apophis. Starting in 1981, they warned about this object coming towards Earth and the need for our scientists to come together to deflect it from it’s trajectory.

Naturally, the know-it-alls were dismissive of the information, citing the always infallible NASA to reassure us that Apophis was really nothing to worry about. Sure, NASA changed its estimate of the actual size of Apophis to within 25 meters of what Meier published but…so what? After all, we’re Americans and Americans are always right, right?

However, it actually does appear that Meier’s warnings have been pursued, though not by US scientists, only those “nobodies” in Russia and China. While our scientists are busy creating various “initiatives” and other public relations exercises, the Chinese and Russians have gone about the business of planning to deflect asteroid Apophis, as specifically recommended by the Plejaren.

Saving Face or Saving Lives?

The unspoken truth is that none of the mainstream scientists and organizations in the US actually expect to “discover” extraterrestrial life for a long time. There’s an underlying belief that it’s not “supposed to happen yet”.

Let’s take a moment to put things in perspective. Remember that all of the scientists of today, including at NASA, SETI, etc., were in the past just…students, sitting in college classrooms like today’s aspiring scientists are. Far from being any kind of all-knowing gods then either, they too were working hard to get their degrees, pursue higher learning and, in too many cases, also a falsely elevated status, celebrity standing, fame and fortune, etc. After all, it’s the…American way (and now in a few other places as well). Such self-seeking and profit motivated agendas do nothing good for humanity but I’m not so naïve as to think that it’s going to stop anytime soon, despite the great cost to our collective wellbeing.

So now that certain scientists have attained their long sought, expensively pursued positions and status, far, far too many of them are more concerned with not rocking the boat (read: loss of funding, tenure, so-called credibility, etc.). So there they sit, silently refusing to acknowledge, let alone comment on such matters as the voluminous, authenticated, corroborated evidence and information in the Meier case…even if it means that an asteroid actually will slam into the Earth. One might think that it’s their way of saying that they’d rather die than face the embarrassment of finding what they say they’re looking for. Maybe more correctly, they’d rather that other people die than risk their own vested interests.

People, make no mistake about it, this is exactly the kind of world we live in. This is exactly the to-be-expected result of the ever-increasing greedy selfishness, lack of self-honesty and integrity that has supplanted all such previously exalted human values. Unlike their on-screen counterparts, these scientists would rather…not be the ones who will forever be associated with the most important discovery in human history, the existence of extraterrestrial life – and its outreach to help humanity assure its own future survival.

Paint It Red

We speculated on the possible connection between the Red Meteor and the Torino Scale. In yet another interesting twist on the “red” component, Jeff Tan posted this information on our blog about how the “older rocks tend to be reddish (emphasis added) in these observations”:

“To know for certain whether this happens, astronomers will need to observe Apophis during its 2029 pass. Scientists age asteroids by surveying infrared light; older, weathered rocks tend to appear more reddish in these observations. If a high-quality spectrum can be obtained during the approach, it should be possible to compare the color of Apophis before and after its flyby, Bottke says. “When [Apophis] makes its pass, we’ll get to run the experiment. Whether it’s all solved or not we’ll have to find out.”

As Chris Lock also pointed out:

As to why NASA’s trajectory of Apophis is wrong: Apophis seems capable of landslides. These and chnages to its orbit as it approaches “the keyhole” on its flyby of Earth in 2029 could very likely result in a changed trajectory bringing it THEN onto a collision course with Earth. It is not made of ice so we are not looking at dissolved parts. It could be this is why Ptaah mentioned that Earth scientists need to be doing something asap as presumably after the flyby will be too late…Meier isn’t just predicting a meteor will “someday” hit the Earth: He is predicting its size, approximate date of arrival, specific point of impact, and resultant effects. Just a few important details you omitted. The US experiences hundreds of tornados a year. SInce when has the earth experienced hundreds of meteors a year?

Matthew Knight’s reasoning also bears consideration:

Quetzal: “Earth humanity should listen to your words and warnings, but that especially they do not do.”

In CR 150, Billy and Quetzal state, as facts, that “humanity” will, not only, learn the identity of red meteor in the future (or what is the point of the warning?), but, they will receive further “words and warnings” (plural). One “red meteor” warning from this 1981 conversation would not constitute adequate warning that “humanity” “should” or could do anything about – even if they ultimately decide to “do not do” anything. So far, all the predictions, both, implied and stated, in that 1981 contact report, have come true!

Meier had an impossibly small window of time for scientists to identify a suitable NEO from 1981, that will pass close enough to Earth to be recognised as any kind of threat. Again, the identification of a suitable NEO would have to come before Meier’s death. After then, Billy would not be able to confirm any findings from astronomers, or, put flesh on the bones of Quetzal’s original warning so that it makes sense and becomes a set of “warnings” that mankind can “listen to”. Also, this NEO would have to be passing earth before the time that we are able to defend against all NEOs with future space technologies, say, in the year 2050 (according to timeframes of current NEO space projects). Therefore, in 1981, Meier’s window for this prediction to come true was 1981 – circa 2050.

In 1991, the earliest known publication date, no known NEOs were expected to come close to Earth. Even though Apophis was spotted 13 years later and was initially a high-risk threat, no NEOs since are expected to threaten earth before 2050. Everything Billy and Quetzal discussed in 1981 about the “future” time – where mankind knows about this meteor and can do something about it – has been proven to be true. Why, then, doubt Billy’s accuracy about the remainder of that prediction if impossible odds were involved? Meier’s warning has been explicit and consistent since 1981 whilst astronomers have disagreed about the size of the object, even following Ptaah’s estimate of 350 metres in CR 475. Scientists have also been unable to agree how close Apophis will pass to the Earth and the changing calculations continue whilst the Plejaren have said the same thing since 1981.

What we have above is certainly “speculative” but one would say that it’s every bit as good, thoughtful and compelling as anything from a science fiction movie, especially when one actually does examine Meier’s record of voluminous, accurate scientific information. Of course our distinguished scientists are not yet deigning to comment about Meier’s warnings – certainly none have yet attempted to refute or, equally telling, debunk it.

So will the “kids” who sat in those classrooms years ago, who now have academic positions and initials after their names, etc., end up being shown up by “ordinary” people who’ve taken the self-responsibility to try to make a difference in the world, who aren’t so concerned about loss of face as they are abut loss of lives, will they…grow up, show up and do their jobs and maybe then get their sought after book and movie deals, reality show, or whatever else they really lust after?


SETI Sent Evidence of ET Contact by They Fly Productions

New Confirmation of Billy Meier’s Warnings about Apophis

New NASA Discovery: The Earth Is Round!

Russian Meteor a Warning to Prevent Apophis Impact

The Adventures of Billy Meier Web-Comic


Goblet of the Truth Now Available!

NOTE: International shipping may cost more than indicated. 

We now have this magnificent new book, the entire teaching of the prophets, with both the German and English in a beautiful hardcover edition.

To launch it, here’s a special offer for the attentive:

Get the Goblet of the Truth and the Might of the Thoughts and we’ll send you either the Spiritual Teaching in Everyday Life, And Did They Listen?, as the time fulfills, The Silent Revolution of Truth DVD, or The Meier Contacts – The Key to Our Future Survival– your choice. Just indicate which one you want with your order.

That’s a $25 value absolutely FREE when you buy both books.

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Thanks to Jeff Tan, Matthew Knight and Chris Lock




247 comments on “The Apophis Puzzle: The Meaning of Red

  • Hello,

    You probably know that has been suspended 🙁 and due to that many URLs (Especially the latest ones) are not available any longer.

    Stanislaw Kodzis

  • Stanislaw, I just checked out the figu website! Since where on earth did you get the idea that the figu website shut down. Go take a good look at the figu website! “It`s STILL there!

  • MH at 5:30: my interpretation of your comment is that because study of Meier’s documents is done independently, Meier is not the head of a religion. If you look back at the definition I gave of “religion,” there’s nothing in it that would preclude self-study. Many religions encourage self-study.

    • I think it’s obvious that religions are founded on beliefs and the requirement to believer, among other things, including rituals, superstitions, prayers, imaginary outside controlling forces, beings, etc.

      If you wish to do more than appear to be one who poses meaningless, irrelevant challenges, than learn more about what the difference between belief systems, teachings, etc., and of course things like self-responsiblity, neutral-positive thinking, etc., that are the antithesis as well of religions, cults, sects, etc.

      • You’re overlaying your own belief system on top of the definitions of religion and belief. The definition of religion on Wikipedia doesn’t require ritual or prayer, nor does it preclude self-responsibility. As for superstition and imaginary beings, they’re not required, but Meier has ’em in spades anyway. It sounds like your argument might be that Wikipedia’s definition is wrong, but I’m not sure.

        • Moshe,

          Please raise the level of the commentary/challenge here. I don’t think anyone is biting on the “religion and belief” thing being in any way connected to the Meier case, information, etc.

        • Wikipedia, as I am sure you are aware, is written by anyone, can be added to and edited at anytime; sure hope you are not basing your argument on some description there. Sure a lot is probably correct but this source, imo, cannot be attributed to a reliable source – the end all, it is however a good jumping off point for many for further study.

          • Ev, yes, thanks, I’m aware that it’s possible for Wikipedia to contain incorrect information. I invited MH to indicate in what way he disagreed with those definitions (if he did) and he declined to do so. Do you have another source on which you’d prefer me to base my argument?

        • The argument seems to be that religion and false beliefs is wrong and to ones again attack those whom are ‘free thinkers/truth seekers’ in thinking that they are also stupid and childish in their mental processing? Just because they agree non the less with Billy Meier and his very truthful position on these things!
          For me at least, this all goes back well into my childhood. I was never ‘religious’ and rebelled against it for all of my life(though comprehending the meaning of beliefs came a little later in life)! One would never understand the journey of another being as far from ‘religion’, whilst being very much stuck and surrounded within it! It is interesting though, how people cannot and will not find, stop finding ‘religion’ and beliefs in everything. Lest it smack them in the face within the ever recognizable personal occurrence of a lack of it, if we just stopped and opened the thoughts to its recognition in a natural nonhuman thought created, neutral observance of ‘it’. That we have individually created and follow the stupid beliefs found within ‘religion’ as we individually wish to believe. What WIKI is all about:)
          As I now take the time to read ones again, my GENEROUSLY donated book by those of FIGU Canada, The Goblet of the truth. I think there is a few lines right at the beginning that pull the vail of stupidity within beliefs and religion, if not found within the ENTIRE BOOK!
          Goblet Of The Truth page 7,
          Line 22: The real truth is not equivalent to and cannot be compared to your personal truth that you create in yourselves based on your belief and understanding according to your own nature(individuality).
          Line 23: Truth is that which is given in reality and is evidential, whereas belief is bindingly linked to that which as the unseen(the unconscious) and the unprovable is erroneously assumed to be true.
          I am obviously cherry picking here again and to get the real gist of this string of profound anti belief, delusional religious non sense that rules most of everyone’s days, if they cannot see it everywhere or care to hassle those whom don’t. One must read the entire chapter…. or just go outside and observe the world we live in, in its purest form we have left in observing ‘creation’, nature.
          With this in mind does the truth beyond belief and religions not reside within our ability to use the might of our thoughts to neutral positively, consistently observe our thoughts, feelings, actions in a responsible evolutive way…… based on the observance of these things within the observable truth of nature and ‘creation’ itself? To live ones life within the real meanings of love, peace, harmony, freedom, equality, respect for oneself and all that has given us life and sustains it.

          Moshe I for one have found solace with your outright unknowing words. It, they, in the end show your utter lack of knowledge and research into the real truth of Billy Meiers words, and case! You as far as I have seen have followed suite in the path of those walking their own dark, dusty trail on our world.
          Yet you are far from alone!

          • Philip said: “The argument seems to be that religion and false beliefs is wrong and to ones again attack those whom are ‘free thinkers/truth seekers’ in thinking that they are also stupid and childish in their mental processing?”

            No, I’m not stating anything negative about religion. I was responding to MH’s challenge for someone to present the case that Meier runs a religion. It’s a religion that has beliefs just as deep and indisputable in the minds of the faithful as some other religions.

            Thanks for sharing that my words have given you solace. I hope they have for others as well!

            I couldn’t understand most of the rest of what you wrote.

          • As I said, no one has taken the bait. Now, if you actually want to make a case for FIGU being a religion – which is actually quite humorous since you’ve never bothered to come and actually check for yourself – then do so or please stop wasting space. I can help you to do that by not posting any more idiotic claims, which are on par with saying that FIGU’s a political organization, a secretly Masonic group, etc., etc., etc.

            If you were making the statements for anything more than some kind of provocative, shock value, then you would have at least asked yourself just what kind of a religion DOESN’T try to recruit you to join, knock on your door, seek money from you, have beliefs, superstitions, rituals, etc.

          • Only solace in how utterly wrong and erroneous your words are to me, within the truth of Billy Meiers case. I initially gave you the benefit of maybe just being new and in need of time, research, thought. You seem to have a high degree of self centered understanding, up on your high horse their believer. I guess then I was correct in that you come here in defense of religion and your erroneous beliefs that shine as bright as the mid day sun. Hopefully somewhere in all that you will finally understand what you obviously don’t. Though I wont be holding my breathe for to long.
            Typical you don’t understand, as it runs highly parallel to the case you so proudly think you are proficient in obviously not understanding. Maybe Google the definition of a few more words from WIKI that have been written for your pleasure of understanding a little better, arm chair expert.
            The delusional, stupid, wrong beliefs of religion are as about as intelligent in your defense of something you have obviously never taken the time to actually look at. So in as much not being able to run past religion and beliefs in as much as being stuck within them.
            And you call this a religion:) Quite the play on words that only depends the meaning and motive for coming here in the faithful manor you have dear Moshe….. Best of luck on your motives that are as easy to see through as the trail one seems to be riding in on. As we all do, got a lot of work to do to even begin to understand, even how ridiculous, delusional, and outright wrong religions and their associated beliefs are.

          • NOTE: Andy has some comments to make on this topic but he apparently forgot that certain questions were asked of him that first required his answers.

            Hopefully he will go back and answer them so we all can read his latest comments.


          • I cant help but post this here too as it seems fitting for this discussion…. for those interested enough to understand basic English.
            Seems a recent study shows the benefits of being in nature and how well humans perform while being within this atmosphere… even if just looking at pictures.
            Though how could not inundating oneself in the expression of the truth of all that is created be any more beneficial to those stuck sitting behind a computer all day. Seems to have the ability to portray the truth of reality more so than Wiki and google, obviously. Though I guess in some respects this is unfathomable to some whom have got it all figured out with as little work put in as possible. Lest they actually have something of inspiration to say other than not understanding…. which is quite priceless in such a debate:)

          • Belief ~ acceptance, expectation, faith, hope, idea, judgment, opinion, conjecture, divination, guess, impression, persuasion, presumption, reliance

            Truth ~ fact, certainty, reality, verity, validity, accuracy, authenticity, correctness, exactness, factualness, genuineness, precision, actuality

            The thing is, when one really gets into the Meier material and not just the UFO eye candy but the core of the case, the spiritual teachings, it will be seen that it is written and expressed in such a way that the one reading and endeavoring to understand finds that it is essential to dig deep and wiggle out what is a belief and what is truth to them, inside them and for them. I can say for myself it is not for the fainthearted and does require a deep and profound self evaluation and examination. The spiritual teachings are simply recommendations for leading a life in it’s fullest according to natural law, Creational law. As each one of us become more in tune with these principals of love and wisdom and not the pressed upon us fallacies of the ones whom want control and power, it filters out into the world at large creating a much better world in which to live and this is only our world not to mention so many others it will effect and in the end Creation itself.

          • It does seem that when it comes to certain aspects of Billy’s ‘case’, things are left open very wide for individual interpretation. There is so many things within this ‘case’ that I really don’t know about. Mainly that I am not a photo expert and have not traveled the world checking leads and interviewing witnesses. Trying to analyze data and cross reference that with older data not accessible to me. I am 33 years old and lets just say couldn’t put together a page of information as enriching and valid as this man in Switzerland.

            Does this mean I think he is a god like Moshe apparently does? Hell no! A LOT of investigators have gone and found what I now think is very much the truth…. including the owner of this blog. How many people who ACTUALLY DO THE WORK does it take tell they are looked at with respect!?
            In reality it seems to be quite the opposite within how I came to finally see the writing on the wall. And for those stuck deep within their religious beliefs, it had a lot to do with the utter opposite that can be found within the information of Billy Meier, the guy in contact with highly intelligent human/beings from the depths of the universe. No god, savior, guru, share holder, official, imam, etc, etc. Just a human being like all the rest of us whom has been chosen to try and help the fanatic, delusional, lost religious people of earth. A life time of looking around on this rock with eyes wide open…… makes sense to me!
            I guess one just has to ask themselves if they are comfortable being a slave to a fairytale that only demands total servitude, mental degeneration, lack of respect for oneself and complete dependance, fear on someone not there, a fairytale. To me at least, when I first read the spiritual teachings and the stance on religion in general…. I knew I was home. Home because it was always what I thought as an individual, all on my lonesome anyways. The essence of freedom, love, peace, harmony, respect, wisdom, equality to name but a few are all the words we need in forming ourselves to the truth of what and where we are in the vastness of the universe. If there is one thing that is with me daily, it is my thoughts and they ride strong within the total lunacy we have created around religions and the servitude my fellow woman and man are stuck within. How do we free one another from something no one thinks they have, a disease called religion and its associated beliefs that stifles the individual from being a basic individual, a real human being.

          • Ev at 2:39: I can’t argue with the Meier material as a spiritual guide and belief system. It’s when people claim that there’s “ironclad proof” in favor of Meier that my eyes roll. If it “speaks” to people, great, but they shouldn’t claim unarguable evidence.

          • Moshe @ 8:12 pm I disagree with you that the spiritual teachings are a “belief system”. It is ironclad for many. As for your obvious beef with Michael it will not change anyones mind that continue to comment and share how they feel about this blog or the material produced here. Good wishes for your health and happiness, Ev

    • Die Geisteslehre resp. the spirit-teaching is not a religion. It is THE religion. A religion is only true insofar as it contains some or the other part of the spirit-teaching.

        • Explanation to religion vs. relegeon, from Arahat Athersata:
          “432. Es kann niemals Religion zur Evolution verwendet werden nach euern heutigen Begriffen, sondern allein Relegeon.
          435. Die Wahrheit, die Weisheit, das Können, das Wissen und die Liebe usw. müssen aus dem gegenwärtig martiell-bewusstseinmässig Vorhandenen wieder zusammengenommen und zusammengefügt werden, um dann durch eine Bewusstseinerweiterung eine Weiterentwicklung zu erfahren.
          436. Eine religionmässige Form aber, nämlich eine Rückverbundenheit, lässt die Relegeon schon in ihrer Grundsubstanz vernichten und niemals fruchtbaren Boden finden.
          438. Aus der Form der Relegeon entsteht effectives Wissen, woraus wider die Weisheit und das Können resultieren.”

          By the way Moshe, the evidence of the Meier case is conclusive. One must merely know where to look for the most definitive proof.

  • Once again the history channel, this time on H2, had a documentary that information in the contact reports seems to clearly explain, this time about our scientists suppositions that an Asteroid or Comet impact occurred around 13,000 years ago that caused the mini ice age. Their most confirming evidence was in the form of tiny metal spheres and microscopic diamond dust that was found all across the USA and lower Canada. They suppose that the impact crater does not exist due to the impact location was a large glacier and the glacier would have eventually melted.

    I do not recall this topic coming up here yet, but it seems to me that the likely impact and event that this H2 documentary was based on ties in very nicely to when the scientists of Mu directed the attack on Atlantis. The location described in the contact reports would make the theory that our scientists have about the cause for the mini ice age more logical since a strike in lower Canada would seem to have less likely spread the debris field south and east to account for the massive amounts of tiny metal spheres that were found.

    It is interesting just how many of these documentaries on History channels line up, actually could be made far more conclusive and far less ambiguous and speculative if only a little investigation into the story of BEAM were to be undertaken. I’ve often wondered what would happen to Ancient Aliens if Michael were to be invited to share the Meier information, it would likely be the last one ever aired but would it not be the best conclusion to a series of this nature or what?

    • As you also imply, the Meier case case fairly and accurately presented would be the end of the “ancient alien” charade in all its forms and, therefore, unlikely since the priority for the media, for the UFO industry, etc., is profit about all and that means above the truth as well.

      • NOTE: Dear “Guest” person,

        Again, please note that your comments aren’t being posted only because of your anonymity.

        Use your true identity and I see no reason why they wouldn’t be up for the readers to see and respond to.

  • I do agree that the information regarding the Might of Thoughts and the Goblet of Truth are clearly the way to concentrate in addition to the peace meditation participation. A few friends are astronomers , however they do not have the high end equiptment as does NASA. I live near the space coast and some are very quiet lately. We have secret launches all the time and actually I can see tests of military craft on the skyline that is just insane. I like to dig deeper. Part time I learn German, continue to read the BEAM materials and stay up to date. I know NASA is a filtered down operation , just like the rest of it. Need to know is something that burns me up. Public money is used to do a lot of things that are just stamped classified. Take this TPP crap. Just pass it ? Nobody can read it . My first question is why people are walking dead. I know why . I just get amazed at the success of the people that do not like truth, real solutions, positive movement , solving problems, aspiring to be more as a civilization and on and on . This life has become a Twilight Zone episode. Day to day I am shocked at the people I encounter that I try to small talk simple logic . They are totally altered beyond belief damaged. Its not normal. Normal human evolution begins with a child that has no fear. Birthed a sponge of knowledge and wonder , its all down hill from their for the last five generations and getting worse. Nobody even has a respectable human to look up to . If just one person could just be a stand alone human and make a difference in a meaningful way it would be a start in the right direction from this epidemic spiral down. So sad.

    • Terry,

      It appears that the AUSTRALIAN FIGU group has had trouble with their website. As far as I know at this point, there is no conclusive information; it may simply be a technical glitch.

  • Duke,
    Doubtless you are sincere with your TJ question but please realize this blog thread is about Apophis and the Red Meteor.
    Maybe you would be better off asking your TJ question on the Figu forum.

    • Chris L,

      If you are referring to my one post about these times from the TJ from the 6 pages here in response to a bunch of other posts about the subject of truth, then I’m pointing out stuff about these times to folks that NEED help to see and beware of on just how much pressure there is to obfuscate the truth (or just avoid it completely) by folks calling themselves with almost equal parity as the Prophet from 2000 years prior. We’re dealing with poseurs whose only goal in life is perception management and making logical arguments over the subject of evidence that may or may not actually be real.

  • Duke , Gil Broussard is a very competent scientist . Although he has not pushed his work much , he weaved a mighty work of the past and impending present that is quite impressive . I get it that you inspect what you inspect and that is admirable. This stuff , in my opinion is unfolding during the times where that comment really means something. Actually , what could we as small crumbs on the bun do . Pretty much nothing. Live life like their is no tomorrow and love as much as you can . That’s that. Screw this incoming crap anymore. Its fodder. I really find that just be yourself , be positive and do your thing . My guitar amp is up loud and I am playing local places and commiting random acts of kindness. That’s all . Maybe twisting some wrenches on my boat or hot rod. Making a killer pizza from scratch or making a killer meal to bring to work for my friends to blinds side them . WTF, when I go , I will be back , better prepared from my work. Talking babble , snot running out of my nose , hoping to be a keeper , and then I employ all my supreme guitar skills to warm the masses and my culinary wisdom . Then I find the old hot rods like Mad Max and have some personal fun and hope that female earth humans can find love in a person like me. I’m good . And I hope to pass it on . for a quadrillion years.

  • If “beliefs as deep and indisputable in the minds of the faithful as some…religions” constitutes religion then every soccer team, baseball team, indeed any sports team with inflexibly devout followers and believers no matter what, are religions. This clearly is not what constitutes a religion. A definition of religion is not necessary for the millions brought up in one; they know from personal experience what one is. Religions are authoritarian structures that INSIST ON or DEMAND faith, unquestioning belief, acceptance of all that their leaders pronounce; and the instill a sense of guilt by which the followers are controlled. This comes from the top down. Meier and Figu actually insist on the complete opposite which makes them the very antithesis of a religion.
    Moshe seems to be conflating his perception of some people’s attitude to the Meier material as Meier and Figu themselves.
    I am amazed that MH has been patient enough to allow these off base misconceptions and off topic comments here.
    They are worth discussing for the benefit of newbies to the material, but they shouldn’t really be posted here.

    • Chris L at 7:27: you may not have seen the full definition of religion I gave earlier.

      Also, I think you’re presenting a false generalization about religion based on your personal negative experience with one. Do you consider Confucianism and Taoism religions? If so, does they have “authoritarian structures that INSIST ON or DEMAND faith, unquestioning belief, acceptance of all that their leaders pronounce; and the (sic) instill a sense of guilt by which the followers are controlled”?

        • I prefer Webster’s definition of religion: 1. The worship of God or gods. 2. A belief; a system of doctrines of faith and worship.
          Moshe, no one here (except for the odd religious freak) worships God or gods. Can you at least name one person on this blog who is guilty of using faith and worship? Put up or shut up.

      • Religion means to be bound to some past cause, as e.g. some willing being which is placed above one and before one, e.g. a god, an idol, a scientist, &c. Relegeon means to follow the “Richtschnüre des Lebens”, which are the morphogenetic evolutionary pressures of Creation, but not slavish carrying out of someone else’s will. The difference between religion and relegeon is therefore just fundamentally a difference of past vs. future. Relegeon guides one into the future by evolution. Religion binds one to the past through determined causes over which one has no control. This because the past cannot be changed, but the future is a free path which however is guided along.

    • This entire discussion has at least finally shown the real ‘colors’ of at least one person. In a more solid form than just constantly disagreeing on issues that are non existent, to me at least.
      Seems so often that preconceived beliefs and ‘religious’ based thoughts push people away from the truth more than anything. For some to the point of disregarding all the evidence, material, investigators, truth, and coming up with their own twisted, non worked out, for, beliefs. Which as it would seem consists of an associate degree in Wiki, google, and sore arms on the chair. Maybe in a way ‘religion’ is in itself just a function of the thoughts to loose the compass of truth and basic observation of reality. Within the ability to differentiate between reality and fairy-tales. Though now as we move away from these thought patterns on a larger scale with our young at least, we have phantasmagoria to now deal with, within trying to see reality within delusions. Which in many ways seems to be basically based on one and the same thing, religion and phantasmagoria.
      Nicely put that this is childish(newbies) in its basic form. As it seems -most- whom do not go to Switzerland and read German came to all of this information based on its utter truth related to religion, beliefs in general. The antithesis of what the rest of the world thinks, believes and what more do we get when one here finally shows themselves. They raise Billy to a god also. Yet then turn around and of course say we have done this all on our own, whilst they keep on believing. Seems the hump to get over is to see the responsibility that one has and how much in reality we individually create religion. As each human makes their own form, function, thoughts, feelings, actions, within religion to fit their own self…. as it sure as can be just the human in control of their own consciousness creating the meaning of whatever title and sect they wish. Billions of different religions on our world that one may call whatever they want! And they sure will based on the main tenants people believe them to be different within. Worth killing and dividing based on a delusion…. one human in control of their own self to another…………

  • Moshe,
    The generalization (which is all anyone can really give) of religion is not based on my own personal experience but that of the general public, though the demands or them may be more subconscious than literal.
    No I, like many, do not consider Taoism, Confucianism, (or Buddhism generally for that matter) as religions. To me they are better defined as philosophies. I realize many, probably most regard them somewhat automatically as religions, but they in many respects, and there are exceptions in various branches and schools, have a flexibility and lack of dogma at their cores. Some of them do have demands but these are generally reserved for various branches and versions that are more religious. The pantheon of organizations functioning under the headings of religions or philosophies are just too varied to apply an applicable label to cover them all.
    Meier to me is not either a religion or a philosophy. Basically it is just a record of alleged conversations between Meier and extraterrestrial friends if his, plus some inspirational writings of his own.
    Perhaps you would like to specifically state why you see Meier and Figu as a religion. So far, correct me if I am wrong, you have just claimed so without any substantiation with respect to Meier and Figu. There is a group around Meier but this is fundamentally just to support him to make his materials available to the public.

    • Chris L: Using your specific definition of “religion,” Meier devotees probably don’t constitute a religion. And most people who are members of an established faith like Christianity would say that their’s are not religions either, using your definition.

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