Donate Button
Thursday, March 28, 2024

The Billy Meier UFO contacts singularly authentic ongoing for 80 years the key to our future survival

The Sad, Cynical Legacy of Stanton Friedman


A testament to the pursuit of profit over truth, fueled by intellectual dishonesty and cowardice

The email exchanges below will tell the story of what happens when a self-satisfied, profit-oriented member of the UFOCI pretends to want to know the truth about the Billy Meier UFO contacts, until he sees that the truth would crush him, his pretenses and…book sales. Unaware of what the listeners already determined about his credibility and competence, he further reveals his contempt for their intelligence in the second debate.

He deals a death blow to his own legacy, revealing what a complete sham the UFO field and its supposed “experts” really are, and why the topic is often deservedly marginalized by rational, thinking people.

…………………………………………………………….

Stan,

Let me be a bit more direct with you now, after I’ve spent four hours of my time trying to engage in intelligent debates with you, which included providing you with links to all of the documentation that would certainly suffice…had you truly been interested in the Meier case and it’s actual significance. In fact, every so-called “point” you raise in your terse response is answered in the Meier case, you simply never bothered to look. You did take a lot of time attacking a man who’s no longer living and who couldn’t speak in his own defense, of course.

Unfortunately, you were also too lazy, self-satisfied and contemptuous of the facts to bother. So you prefer to default to help continue the actual UFO cover-up – which is now solely about the Meier case – and this cover-up will become an indelible part of your legacy, to your own family and generations of people to come.

I’ll post the results of the listener’s poll for our first debate in case you didn’t see them either:

 

Friedman Debate

 

I don’t think it changed in your favor after the second one. You were simply received and evaluated as someone with…no credibility. I doubt that this response of yours will do much to enhance it, or show you were better prepared, sincere, or wanting to continue to anything more than promote your books, chuckle and try to cover up the painful facts that showed you to be completely out of your league.

We know that you tried to involve yourself in the original investigation but were told by Stevens and the team members that no one in the UFO community would be part of the actual investigation, but only qualified, independent experts such as those from NASA, JPL, USGS, etc., who indeed analyzed and authenticated Meier’s evidence.

You continue to promote your career and books based on an utterly unprovable case, with zero accessible evidence, yet you have the absolutely cynical arrogance to try to be dismissive of volumes of independently analyzed and authenticated physical and informational evidence from the only actual, still ongoing UFO contact case.

Frankly, this exhibits a level of contempt for the truth and for the intelligence of all interested parties which, as the listener’s poll demonstrates, was obvious to all.

Of course I didn’t ask you to be “convinced”, I asked that you would show the intellectual curiosity, honesty – and integrity – to pursue the truth. Instead you opted to try to protect your ego, to try to assuage the nagging realization that your years of attack and dismissiveness of the Meier case were ill spent. You didn’t have the courage and strength of character to actually investigate the case because you put profit over principles.

You’ve aligned yourself with the camp of the delusional “alien abduction” proponents, etc., etc. when you could have made a huge contribution to real human knowledge and even the safety of generations of people to come, which may include your own descendants.

When push comes to shove, many people choose mediocrity, compromise, etc., for the sake of personal profit, as you again demonstrate.

Despite the many emails and comments I received, after both shows, that you were transparently inept, posturing and insincere, I actually responded with optimism that you’d see – at this late point in your own life – that it wasn’t too late to champion an open investigation into the Meier case by the community in which you spend your time and make your money.

My optimism was misplaced of course. You performed like a jovial huckster who dodged and avoided any and every opportunity to behave like a credible scientist. You were absolutely no different than the kind of business-as-usual “scientists” that clog up the current educational system and who also have no interest in the truth, for all the obvious reasons.

You were given ample opportunity to create a real, lasting contribution to finding the truth…and you blew it off in favor of milking whatever profits remain from selling tales of limaginary “aliens”.

You fooled no one but yourself.

Michael Horn

Authorized American Media Representative

The Billy Meier Contacts

www.theyfly.com

Facebook

youtube.com/c/MichaelHorn812

…………………………………………………………….

On Nov 13, 2015, at 11:44 AM, Stan <fsphys@bellaliant.net> wrote:

Michael:

I must refuse the invitation as I am not convinced. You keep mentioning lights in the sky. I care not at all about lights in the sky.I am concerned with physical trace cases, multiple witness radar visual cases,advanced propulsion technology,large scale scientific studies, clear proof of government withholding information about UFOs. You seem not to be concerned about such matters.Has the Meier Defense community made available samples of ET materials for testing and published their results?. Many have sent comments about the absence of real proof about predictions.

Stan Friedman

…………………………………………………………….

—– Original Message —–

From: Michael Horn

To: Taro

Cc: Stan

Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2015 9:58 PM

Subject: Re: Meier Debate

Hi Taro & Stan,

I appreciate participating in this conversation, as a follow up to last night’s show, and I’d like to move this along effectively as well.

Stan, as I stated last night, it’s time that the Meier case was the focal point of open discussion and examination by the UFO community, MUFON – and more importantly any and all scientists who admit an interest in the UFO topic – anything less would only perpetuate the cover-up. (The real main culprits in the UFO cover-up are in the UFO community and…industry.)

To that end I’d like us to arrange an event wherein I present the Meier case and its evidence and any and all credible parties have the opportunity to question, challenge, etc. It’s that simple. No more runaround nonsense with the lights-in-the-sky-chasers and all of the unsubstantiated claims, etc., they churn out for fun and mainly profit.

As I also said last night, the confirmed discovery of intelligent extraterrestrial life would be the most important event in all of science and human history…exceeded only by contact between extraterrestrials and the people of Earth.

And it’s rather easy to demonstrate that the Meier case singularly fits that description.

I invite Taro to assist in this process so that this event is created and effected at the earliest possible time. What Taro accurately expresses below is indicative of the factual, impenetrably credible information, analyses, etc., that make the Meier case singularly authentic.

What we do – or don’t do – now will be an indelible part of our legacy and what we bequeath to future generations, familial and for the rest of humanity.

Let’s do it.

MH

…………………………………………………………….

On Nov 12, 2015, at 1:28 PM, Taro <taro.istok@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello again, Stan. I managed to catch your debate with Michael Horn last night. During the show you mentioned that

“we have an interesting case here” and that “we need a higher level of discussion of people, the scientific community and especially the journalistic community to do their job, get at the facts, put it in front of the public”

I’m not quite clear on where the subject of the debate, the Meier evidence fits into your “Cosmic Watergate” analogy. Should it be dismissed or studied further? If I had to guess it would be that you were being deliberately vague. Is this accurate? Please understand, I am not attempting to solicit a stamp of approval from you. But I genuinely believe Meier’s physical evidence can hold up to the most critical and meticulous scrutiny. The evidence speaks for itself. And it would appear you may have suggested an interest in verifying this for yourself. Failing to seize this opportunity for a second time now could be the biggest mistake you leave behind. After becoming more familiar now with the sheer volume of material this one, disabled man has presented, what do you honestly think is the probability of hoax? And if it’s not, how will you be regarded by future generations for failing to take action when you had the chance?

We all agree, Roswell happened. The two primary distinctions between the Roswell and the Meier evidence are

A)

– The US government maintains a tight, heavy lid on the Roswell evidence.

– The Meier evidence, although suppressed and distorted is readily available for the rational mind to study.

B)

– Roswell was an accident. There was a crash, there were bodies, numerous accidental witnesses.

– The Meier case is intentional and controlled. The nature of the evidence will be as disparate as the case itself and expecting otherwise is not thinking clearly.

It is not very likely the USG will ever willingly release the Roswell evidence. So, unless we have another(even higher level) Snowden-type disclosure, it is very likely a dead-end. I can only imagine how much more careful those in charge are with the Roswell evidence.

The Meier evidence, although not nearly as cut and dry is out in the open. It may appear tedious to sift through the mountain of      material at first but as one spends time with already established analyses it becomes easier to separate the valid scientific work from the garbage. Critical observations become second nature for a guy like me and already should be for a guy like you. In any case, much of the work is already done. All that is left for someone like you is to review this scientific work and offer a scientific evaluation: Either there are flaws in these analyses or they are sound. You appear to have placed a disproportionate amount of focus on material that cannot by themselves be proved either way. This is not scientific. At the same time, you have quickly dismissed physical evidence based on a very limited frame of reference.

Take Bruce Maccabee’s analysis of the Pendulum Film, for example. Although he very thoroughly explained pendular motion he did nothing to address the possibility that ET’s thousands of years advanced could have mimicked this movement intentionally or the possibility that they had very good reason to do so. By ignoring these very plausible scenarios his analysis was quite simply incomplete. My video comparisons(https://youtu.be/SNlmFfb0ADs & https://youtu.be/gMFqSxX1b-g) clearly illustrate the practical difficulties with the suspended model theory. Rhal Zahi’s detailed analysis goes much further by measuring the periods, proving a model setup would necessarily require a constantly moving node in the vertical. The irregular vertical(yaw) axis of the disc prove a suspended model would also require node movement along the horizontal. How likely do you think it would be for such a suspended disc to remain laterally stable? It has never been duplicated as such. On top of this, there are numerous other unexplained events:

– smooth accelerations and decelerations with no obvious pulls

– a gradually INCREASING conical pendulum with no obvious pulls

– a smooth, 270º turn with zero disruption to lateral stability

– treetop movement AFTER disc passage with no disruption to disc movement or stability

– object fading out then back into visibility(x2), simultaneously appearing in two locations across multiple frames

– an unexplained burn-like anomaly during both of these “jumps”

– a noticeable difference in blur level from closest to farthest position from camera

To base your conclusions on the Pendulum Film entirely on Maccabee’s analysis is very much lacking in factual considerations. This is not scientific. I hope you choose to take a closer look.

I’m including Michael into this conversation since he would be the very best person to help arrange any further analysis of the Meier material should you choose to firmly commit to this higher level of discussion you mentioned last night. Remember, the Roswell evidence is safely locked away. But that which is out in the open is what the “powers that be” would have good reason to go to great lengths to hide by encouraging the muddying of the waters, so to speak.

So? Will you take a closer look at the science?

Taro Istok

 

 

Subscribe
Notify of
guest

164 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Jacobus Kotze

Guido Moosbrugger- And Still They Fly- page 151-152

As can be learned from the Contact Report of Oktober, 1976, the ufological circles received the worse grade imaginable by Semjase and I cannot refrain from quoting an excerpt:

Semjase: …These cicles, which are guilty of turning the fact of the existence of the Pleiadians into an object of ridicule in the broad public, have caused us to be regarded as figments of fantasy and hallucination. This does not mean that all UFO groups work in this manner, but most of them do. The misguided ones search for fantastic explanations in technical, paranormal and purely spiritual realms. The most impossible theories arise from their foolishness and ignorance. These misled ones primarily focus on technical possibilities and ways of constructing our ships. They pay no heed at all to our mission or the values connected with it. This is typical of the people of earth, as they nearly always aim for material (worldly) gains and fully overlook basic values…namely, spiritual values. They dream up the most incredible fantasies and even claim that beamships are operated by spiritual powers and are constructed according to spiritual blueprints. This is also a malicious, misleading claim, just like the idea that we would move within paranormal spaces.
The greatest insanity along these lines come from those who concern themselves with incomprehensible matters which they do not understand in the least. They are known as parapsycologists, etc. It is this very group that carries out malicious and misleading subversive activities that affectively hinder the finding of the truth. Those scientists and pseudo-scientists who, for purely material reasons, occupy themselves with the search for possible clarification and explanations of the existence of our flying devices and even for proof that we exist, only exceed the errors of the parapsychologists. Still, the parapsychologists’ actions are only illusions because, in truth, they are possessed by illogic and they are still caught in very materialistic, earthly and misleading forms of thought, therefore, they are incapable of acquiring any knowledge. They condemn everything as lies and deception, whereby they feel satisfied in their great delusions of grandeur. Among this kind is also the one you call …. whose stupidity and primitive behaviour should not upset you. This person possesses no lasting valuable spiritual knowledge- as little as those who still move in fields of hierarchy-worship or the acknowledgement of such. They claim that we simply know nothing of spiritual matters. In fact, their statement only proves their spiritual poverty. These people have not yet discovered for themselves the genuine concepts of reality and truth.
The result of all this is, earth people today are not able to regard us and the existence of our ships in a honest, open and real perspective. The ufologists, who were selected to spread the truth and prepare the way for the arrival of extraterrestrial intelligences, have instead lowered themselves to the level of a primitive, pseudo-scientific sect and promote their own unintelligible and dirty nonsense of self-construed theories and lies. Because of them, earth people throughout the globe have distanced themselves further and further away from truth instead of being led to the truth. This fact proves that earthman does not have sufficiently fair and truly knowing powers at his disposal, which could prepare for the coming of extraterrestrial intelligences through purposeful enlightenment.

matt lee

Hi Matt Knight
No I am not impressed with titles either otherwise Billy with a six grade education would not have gotten a chance by me but… Dr Deadorff isn’t your everyday run of the mill professor is he.
He started out as a skeptic and ironically ended up doing some ground breaking work that will transcend anything that any professors of our time has ever done.
His work on the TJ was brilliant and gaiaguys and his articles was the genesis of my interest in the Billy Meier case initially.
Now speaking of SPDF by definition it doesn’t take telling a lie to pull it off and I for one never acused Billy of lying but irrespective of what that ‘nonsense’ was meant when Billy referred to Dr Deadorff’s theory all the reasoning given by Deadorff makes logical sense.
I am just waiting on another CN or bulletin about this issue from Billy for more clarification not that it is that important now seeing as the mission was a success and the SPDF having been useful all these years to support some aspect of the case.
I mean seriously before BEAM stated that it was ‘nonsense’ who among us here have never used Dr Deadorff’s hypothesis to back up our statements on various forums when dealing with the Skeptic’s contentions with some of the so called stupid staff in the Meier case.
If my memory serves me correct was it you that I had a conversation regarding this issue back in the FIGU forum?

matt lee

Right Michael but what is your position on Dr Deardorff’s Semi Plausible Deniability Factor.
Have you changed your mind after Billy’s nonsense statement?

Matt Knight

Hi matt,
I’ve nothing negative to say about JD’s TJ/Matthew comparisons. My understanding is that the PD theory came from JD’s scrap notes whilst researching material for published work; a diary entry if you will that was never intended to be a formal “theory”.

matt lee

I know
Although Jim did elaborate much further with various articles of his beyond the diary entry

Sean Lear

Hi Matt,

I did miss what Billy said in your last link. Let’s talk about his answer:

“The ‘Leaky Embargo Hypothesis“ is pure nonsense. The Plejaren always informed openly and honestly, of course only within the limits of their directives. And when at some later time they learned that formerly given information turned out as being erroneous (due to a lack of certain knowledge on their side, etc.), they always corrected their former incomplete or false information. What can be stated with certainty: They never lied.”

I am quite clear that the Plejaran have never lied, nor planted false information, etc. But Matt, regarding the sentence: “The Plejaren always informed openly and honestly, of course only within the limits of their directives” — “within the limits of their directives” is the key clause that we are debating over.

I gather from your comments that you absolutely disagree with the idea that: the Plejaran would not make their existence unequivocally known by appearing over New York tomorrow BECA– — — USE it would be dangerous for earth humans, such as resulting in a destabilization of socioeconomic structures and a possible military response that could harm earth humans and maybe even the Plejaran, as well as defeat the entire purpose of assisting earth human progress. Instead, rather you have suggested that they will not appear over New York or DC tomorrow because they “would have demands that our leaders cannot meet” (your words)

What do you think those demands would be for the Plejaran to reveal themselves as a mass revelation over a major city?

Along these same lines:
“…the Plejaran will certainly not contact or put evidence directly into the hands of earth scientists” (Sean) . Tell that to IBM scientist Marcel Vogel & every scientist that has analysed & corroborated the evidence before & since. (Matt)

You did not understand the meaning of my sentence. I am aware that Marcel Vogel received metal samples through Meier, rather than directly from the Plejaran, just as all evidence that has been independently evaluated by scientists has come directly through Meier, and NOT directly from the Plejaran. In other words, he provides to others what the Plejaran make available to him. (There are some exceptions, where Meier’s FIGU members have spotted beamships, or the one that I in particular am convinced by: the retired UN ambassador who has no connection to FIGU confirming that she saw saw both Asket and her beamship.)
The meaning of my statement is that the Plejaran are unwilling to engage directly with the military, scientists, or news outlets, in order to directly disseminate the information, which would achieve two things: 1. Lessen the need to depend on Meier’s credibility in review of the evidence 2. A more rapid dissemination to the entire public, most of whom, as you know, have never even heard of the Meier case. The Plejaran could very well do this if they wanted, but they do not want to do this, and why do you suppose this is? Does it relate to earth humans not being able to meet “certain demands,” otherwise they would? So I’ll redirect you to my previous question… what are these “demands” or said differently, what conditions do you think would be necessary for the Plejaran to start providing direct evidence to scientists or news outlets to get the message out quicker? It’s not a trick question, I’m just interested in your reasoning.

Sean

Matt Knight

The Plejaren gave a list of demands to the US government clearly stating what it would take for them to make open contact, e.g., basic truthfulness and honesty about all religion. This should make us realise how blatant & purposefully controlling religions are & that those in power know that. Those aren’t unreasonable demands in my book.

The “limits of their directives” has nothing to do with any kind of nampy-pambyism about not upsetting us. To make an appearance, openly, without thinking would undermine the supposed purpose skeptics claim this would achieve, as the religious would think Satan hourdes had returned from hell & the military would think it’s christmas, and the open-minded would still think so what, etc. That also answers yor second point.

Matt Knight

P.S. The absolute & concrete appearances & interactions with the public may have been factored into a future viewing by the Plejaren. The scenario we live in now may have been the best of a bad bunch of other possible futures. The one where they show up, may not have gone how people currently think. They have hinted at this. It is the intrigue, the mystery that compels us, but, this is only as good as our ability to find the answers through our own efforts.

Sean Lear

As far as this current scenario, whereby 99.9% of the earth still has not heard of Meier’s case, being the best of all scenarios based off of a Plejaran future viewing, that’s an interesting conjecture, but I don’t know whether that’s true or not.

Matt Knight

It has been mission accomplished by Billy & the Plejaren, so, the rest is up to us now and even less than 0.1% of people have previously changed the world for the better many times before.

Sean Lear

Hi Matt,

Regarding the “limits of their directives” which clearly do not include a mass revelation to all of earth humanity, here is what Semjase says in Contact #3:

“17. We generate contacts here and there with inhabitants of different worlds if our directives allow us, single out some of them, and provide them with explanations, but only if a race is developing towards a higher level and slowly starts thinking.
18. Then we slowly familiarize them with the thought that they are not the only thinking beings in the universe.”

Additionally:

“20. Without exception, all governments on Earth consist of human beings who are greedy for power and gain.
21. Under a smoke screen of peace and friendship, they would only want to seize our beamships in order to completely tyrannize Earth with them.
22. Additionally, they would attempt to conquer the cosmos because they know no bounds.
23. They are not even capable for once to create peace and friendship among the countries of Earth, let alone among the people within their own country.
24. How then would they be capable of handling such powerful devices as our beamships and the many technical fittings on board!
25. There is no interest in showing ourselves publicly to the broad masses.
26. Their consciousness is still short, small and limited through religious enslavement.
27. In their limited reasoning, Earth humans would venerate us as gods just as they did in former times; on the other hand, many people among them—criminal and power-hungry people—would gain possession of our beamships.
28. But let us also not forget all those—and there are countless millions—who would fall prey to complete hysteria and impairment of their consciousness.
29. For these reasons, it is best to cultivate contacts with only a few select Earth humans for the time being, and through them, to slowly impart the knowledge of our existence and tasks, and prepare them for the things to come.”

To paraphrase Semajase’s points and speak to your claims:

Yes, the religious would think the Plejaran were demons or it was Satan trying to trick them (I grew up with Christian fundamentalists, I’m quite certain many would respond this way). This would in fact upset very many religious people (not just Christians) and it could lead to serious despair, including even suicide. So yes, the Plejaran would not do something that would cause direct harm to millions of earth human beings who are caught up in religion , and even though you characterize this as a kind of “namby-pambyism,” it is not — it’s just a cause/effect scenario that the Plejaran would not want to set into motion.

Regarding the military: There is not just not one military on the planet, of course, but many, the major ones being American, Russian and Chinese militaries. These would each be covetous of the plejaran technology while being suspicious of one another; they would seek to steal this for themselves to gain power over one another. That is clearly the understanding of the Plejaran, and Deardorff as well has gone into detail about this matter as well – the cascade of military action across nations that could lead to outright war and the loss of earth human life.

Regarding normal thinking humans and scientists (not overly religious or power hungry): No, they would not simply respond to a Plejaran mass revelation with “so what,” as you say. On the contrary, they would think it was the greatest discovery in mankind’s entire existence until now. It would selectively have a very positive effect on these folks, but these folks do not exist independently of everyone else who would react negatively.

Finally, I believe I can say quite conclusively that the Plejaran’s strategy for revealing this information involves slow revelation (see Semjase, line 18). I also think, based on Semjase’s explanations, it’s fairly conclusive that they are balancing the expediency of revelation against caring for the earth human’s autonomy, sanity, and life.

Matt Knight

Still the skeptics would claim that they could make their existence proveable beyond doubt without giving their ships away & causing such mayhem & I’m positive they would have factored that in to other less invasive secarios as well. “So what” is based on the fact that all amazing discoveries become kinda everyday eventually don’t they if we are stuck in a mindset. It may have been favourable to see the outcome of all the religious jumping off cliffs… just saying. The solar system was a great discovery & we mainly used it to launch satellites that tell lies to the public, e.g., about when we first landed on the moon, etc.

The namby-pambyism I was referring to was from those that think the Plejaren don’t meet & greet because they’re like Buddhists with ants or something – you know, stepping round the issues like good little aliens (skeptical view remember). However, I think they are very intelligent are not interested in having us fall prey to calling them Gods and so the limited contact makes sense, however, Plausible Deniability still doesn’t apply to anything you quoted except when people bend the meaning to make a Professor right and you write.. alot.

Sean Lear

I had admitted in the beginning that there are some of Deardorff’s ideas that didn’t stand to reason, like the plejaran actively lying to increase doubt, and so forth. My goal was not to support in full someone else’s theories, but to evaluate the merit of specific points. Many of these specific points do not add up, while others coincide perfectly with what the Plejaran explain in their own words, which I referenced. So indeed, there are aspects of “leaky embargo” that do actually make sense – the purposeful slow release of evidence to specific people rather than a mass sighting. Semjase’s own explanations lend credence to this, and explain the reasoning behind it.
I’m sorry you feel that I’ve “bent words” – either those of Deardorff or the Plejaran. At the same time, I feel you refuse to admit to even basic facets about the Plejaran strategy that they describe explicitly themselves. I think we’ve gone as far as we can with this conversation. Thanks for your responses.

Matt Knight

As Billy has already said, “The leaky embargo theory is nonsense”. So is plausible deniability. A slow release of information to a select few contacts would be more accurate & leaves the discussion open instead of wrapped in illogic.

Matt Knight

Also as previously stated, the speed (fast or slow) of release of the information is competely 100% up to us. Deardorff’s thery puts all the cards in the hands of the Plejaren like religions do without reflecting on the hand we dealt ourselves.

Sean Lear

Well you sound like you’re very “put upon,” Matt, as no one is interested in your theories because you’re “not a professor”. But actually, the reason why I’ve continued to ask you questions is because you seem to have thought a lot about the case and I am interested in what you have to say. So, there’s no reason to self-deprecate.

Matt Knight

Hi Sean, Thanks and it’s just my dark sense of humour. I find it funny anyway even if I do put that upon myself a bit too much sometimes to the hilarious detriment of other people. 🙂 The people on Lebron 6 find me hilarious.

Sheila Clark

Interesting on Stanton Friedman’s website that this debate is not mentioned or linked. Does he know he lost the debate and is now pretending it never happened? What a coward. I mean he based so much of his information on the bluebook files without ever thinking that Wilbert B Smith had already tainted it with his telehypnotic episodes with the Ashtards. Or that his 2 books with Betty and Barney Hill’s neice Kathleen Marden was a total sham. Of course as with all former people in the weapons industry they never mention what they were working on at the time of the incident which to me is always suspect. Maybe he had more to do with the Hill’s electromagnetic incident than he’s letting on and making sure Kathleen Marden never suspects it was just another military industrial complex experiment?

Sheila Clark

Stan has probably figured out how badly he sucks so he didn’t want to risk any more of this mental legacy aka a legend in his own mind. Too busy sucking up our free health care system in Canada but claims to be American. He reminds me of a Syrian economic refugee.
Yeah I noticed that too about Paul Hellyer and his god freakishness. It’s kind of disturbing, seriously a personal relationship??? That’s crazy talk. Plus all the usual disinformation bozos running to his side with BS. I’m surprised they don’t travel around in a clown car. Of course he too also refuses to mention anything about his time as former defence minister. His only claim to fame during his time in office seems to be a UFO landing pad but fails to address the air weapons testing range close by. Plus he doesn’t mention anything about the UFO craft in the Canadian military hangar in the early ’50s which he would have been privy to. Or why he allowed the US military to test out their anthrax stimulant on Canadian citizens in Winnipeg in the early ’50s – Project St. Jo. Yes Paul cannot talk about some things…but damn he can sure talk about his personal relationship with his dog.
Michael as you well know, the truth is harsh. I’m glad you said there was no such thing. But don’t worry, we still love you!!! I never got to see the movie premiere last night. Do you have a link?

Brett Hedley

I would like to point out to everyone that not only is the Billy Meier case real but we have been able to verify the technology used and explain to a level of understanding of plasma that would leave the small minded ones behind on Earth while we go out to join the universal community. Billy never lets the full truth of the plasma out but for us we already know what creation has in store for us. In order to create a ship like a beam ship you need plasma, like the sun plasma. Like 2 magnets attracted to each other a beam ship creates gravitational magnetic fields of where it wants to go. There is no fuel used. Everyone of the current scientists , time wasters with no brains and 4 letters before there names live in a matter state so they don’t see plasma state. It’s intelligence COHN strength. Thats carbon, oxygen, hydrogen,nitrogen. That’s what we are made of. Now with the new science of plasma I am aware of my soul or spirit, I know I am made of plasma which is in a nano state. Or a GANS state .Gaseous nano solid. Sorry to break the ice and inform all of you that you are made of plasma and making ships that travel the universe is not out of the question within one year. The Iranian government already has these ships. Why do you think America did a deal with them against Isreale’s wishes. The same goes with what the Keshe foundation is teaching, as also the Meier case everyone sticks their head in the sand and say’s it’s not true. But hey it is ,and boy are we having fun with this technology. It’s available for purchase on the Keshefoundation.org.

Tom Tramper

hello Micheal,
I met stan friedman once in Amsterdam somewhere in the 90′ when he was given a lecture about the Roswell-case (again) and asked him about the Meier-case, and he said it was a fraud.
I couldn’t understand at that time like the scientist he is, that the Meiercase was fake.

After you won the debate with Stan:
what is the last thing you heard from him, is he willing the look further into the meier-case or did he quitte completely

best regards Tom (from Holland)

Taro Istok

Notice the collective, unspecified finger-pointing for something called the BILLY MEIER case. About as nebulous a dismissal as any scientist can get away with(yes, that was pun-tended). Not only that, he bases this conclusion on entirely UNSCIENTIFIC sources as well as avoiding his own scientific research. Friedman is a lazy and dishonest scientist at best.

matt lee

Its the adnauseously proverbial problem that repeats itself over and over and over again.
The so called pseudo skeptics won’t look at the evidence presented by Meier properly.
At best its a cursory glance at worst they’ve already made up their minds even before they’ve looked at the evidence.

Doug Slovak

I do not blame Stan Friedman one bit for not wanting to waste his valuable time rehashing this topic which has been proven fake many times. I can’t believe you guys can sit here and 1) still try to prove such nonsense; 2) attack a man that performs rigorous investigations, and has done more for the field of Ufology than many. I mean, how can you sit there with arguments like the aliens may have “mimicked this movement intentionally” to provide an “out” for the skeptics whom could not wrap their mind around it? My gosh, really? All the countless fake pictures Meier has produced, people close to him saying his a liar, etc., etc., and you accuse SF of ignoring factual information?

I look forward to more amusing claims by your group. In the mean time, I think I will go listen to some Dean Martin and the Ding-A-Lings.

Doug Slovak

Doug Slovak

And your comment is EXACTLY why nobody takes you seriously. Any idiot can look at his videos and see that it is a model swinging on fishing line. There are so many other elements I could go into, but I won’t waste my time. If you have any irrefutable evidence, then please, direct me to it.

Doug Slovak

I would like to refer you to this video: https://youtu.be/6nk6duwc6EM
There are many examples given, but I will pick one. Please refer to the video at time frame 10:49. My first question: Is this not supposed to be a photo album of Mr. Meier’s original pictures? Second question: If it is, then the woman in the picture is claimed to be Asket, is she not? Third question: Mr. Meier has claimed that this is not the original photo of Asket, but a picture doctored by the Men In Black. If this IS his original photos, then what is this picture doing in it? It is obviously the woman from Dean Martin’s variety show…

Sheila Clark

Will you be the idiot who tries to do a reinactment using only one hand? Good luck tying the fishing line. You probably didn’t think that far ahead eh?

Doug Slovak

MH: Thank you for the link, I will look into it.

Sheila: I have certainly thought about the fact that the man had only one arm. This would not have prevented him from tying a fishing line ahead of filming these sequences.

Taro Istok

Doug,

A few additional items for you to consider:

1) Phil Langdon is not an expert in anything. I have exposed his inaccuracies, flawed logic and blatant lies in the comment section of that video. Look for

Phil Phlubs Volume 2

He has blocked me from adding further comments on all of his pages. Would he do this if he was confident he had a strong case?

2) None of Meier’s films have ever been fully duplicated. The most critical elements are not possible with a simple model on a wire. Take a close look at my direct comparison:

https://youtu.be/SNlmFfb0ADs

I have isolated the most prominent maneuver in this video:

https://youtu.be/gMFqSxX1b-g

Make sure you try this maneuver at home to see just how much more difficult it is than you imagine.

Along with maneuvers not possible with a model on a wire, there are other elements that need to be addressed before finalizing the hoax theory. Rhal Zahi covers these in this PDF download:

http://www.rhalzahi.com/docs/pendulum-EN.pdf

3) Consider the Asket photo contaminated evidence. There is no way to prove that Meier actually took them(there are three). His explanation is corroborated by Wendelle Stevens’ investigation(i.e. his film rolls were verified to be intercepted/numerous untrustworthy individuals had access to his photos). Also, remember that Meier took hundreds if not thousands of photos. Whoever was responsible for planting the falsified photos very likely counted on these blurry replacements to fool Meier. And photos were never Meier’s primary concern since he had many other things on his mind(raising a young family etc.)

4) Accuracy is key to an honest investigation: There were no “people” close to him calling him a liar. Only one. There were zero steps taken to validate her honesty. She has provided zero evidence to support her claims.

5) Extraterrestrials advanced enough to travel to our planet are very likely to be advanced not only in technology but in other areas as well. The probability that they will approach the task of disclosure in a very different manner than we might expect is very high. Therefore, the probability that they would intentionally mimic movements that appear mundane to some is also very high. Only a closer look reveals the reality.

Brett Hedley

Michael,
How the hell do you put up with complete idiots trying to look like they have some knowledge of the universe. All of you are just f***nuckles. Who have no knowledge of the plasma. As if you did, you would not be here trying to debunk the un-debunkable. Try meditation, and you might start to unlock your inner power. By doing that and studying creation and plasma you might just be able to see the truth when it is put in front of you. But sadly right now you are just rambling stupidity trying to debunk the truth. I will now no longer answer anyone of you idiots posting here as I can’t raise your soul to my level as you are down so low in intelligence you are un helpable

Sean Lear

Hi Michael,

I’m actually curious why you even allow these comments to be posted. When people go off on diatribes about “plasma” or use sentences that are so grammatically incorrect in English one can barely make sense of them, what is the purpose of letting these people contribute? Are you just being courteous and giving them a place to vent? Do you feel like it’s a slippery slope if you start censoring? What is your rationale?

Sean

Billy Wilson

“Stanton Friedman Extraterrestrial Craft are Real” Published on Jan 28, 2016 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUc4G2kQ9Qk. At least he comes clean on how much dirt he has on his hands when it comes to nuclear power, and the money he help to waste and he enjoyed it. And now we have neodymium magnetics thanks to the ETs that was a new one.
Peace
Billy Wilson

Sheila Clark

Thanks for that link Billy Wilson, an hour and a half of my life that I can never get back. Low audience turnout by the looks of it because no one gives a crap what Stan has to say. In response to the question from the audience at the end concerning nuclear testing in Canada, he said no there wasn’t any testing. Well he’s a damn liar since we know about the well documented one in BC in the ’50s. I have a feeling he was part of the electromagnetic experiment on Betty and Barney Hill. Please feel free to extradite Stan’s ass back to the USA so he can face the charge of crimes against humanity.

Jan Schultz

controversial
kɒntrəˈvəːʃ(ə)l /adjective / giving rise or likely to give rise to controversy or public disagreement.
“years of wrangling over a controversial bypass” / “years of debating the controversial Meier UFO case”
synonyms: contentious, disputed, contended, at issue, moot, disputable, debatable, arguable, open to discussion/question, under discussion

Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence. None has been provided. ‘Controversial’ evidence is NOT extraordinary evidence.

If the case is supposed to be controversial (as stated by the Plejahrens via Billy Meier) then let it be controversial and refrain from insulting, belittling and talking down to everyone in a condescending manner who doesn’t believe it, like Michael Horn, Taro Istok and FIGU members constantly do. Insulting a man like Stanton Friedman openly, just because he doesn’t believe in this case, is absolutely arrogant beyond belief. This controversy is the contradicting element, and main reason, that this entire case is maddening because for one it is supposed to be controversial but on the other hand Meier/FIGU/Michael Horn and company are twisting arms to make you believe it using ‘controversial’ and NOT irrefutable, extraordinary evidence. That is schizophrenic.
No wonder nobody wants anything to do with this lunacy. The whole Meier/FIGU clan should be ashamed of themselves and just mind their own business.

Matthew Deagle

Controversial does not mean questionable, it just means that some people or even a majority of people don’t believe in it, as e.g. was the case with Galileo’s theories. “And yet it moves”, etc. If you have a look at your way of thinking, you may therein find the source of your ignorance, mental slavery, etc. And yes, as Michael said, evidence is just a matter of something that rules out other explanations, not something “extraordinary” like a beamship landing on your lawn.

Andrew Grimshaw

“No wonder nobody wants anything to do with this lunacy.”
Now that right there “is absolutely arrogant beyond belief.”
YOU are saying that I am “nobody” and I find that “insulting, belittling and talking down to everyone in a condescending manner.”

Matt Knight

Jan Schultz,

Thanks for giving “…rise to controversy or public disagreement” here on this blog. Your comments suggest that you’ve overlooked/misunderstood how that works.

“No wonder nobody wants anything to do with this lunacy.” Now that really is an “extraordinary” claim which I ask YOU to back up, especially as you felt compelled to get involved, yourself, here to make such ignorant comments. Maybe that IS lunacy.

Jan Schultz

“It would be helpful if you actually knew what you’re talking about. Extraordinary claims DON’T require extraordinary evidence – although the Meier has has tons of it – it only requires that the …SCIENTIFIC METHOD be applied to the evidence.”

You obviously don’t know the definition of ‘controversy’ which I posted in the beginning of my comment. This case, per statement of the Plejahren, is supposed to be controversial.
Do you deny this fact Michael? Meiers claims and evidence IS nothing else then controversial. Direct evidence was never permitted, remember? 😉
Otherwise the whole body of ‘proof’ (pictures, samples etc) would speak for itself.

“It has, through independent scientific experts, and found to be authentic, i.e. not hoaxed and…still irreproducible.”

Not very credible scientists that is and therefor it remains a very doubtful case.
Wendelle Stevens was a convicted felon who spent 5 years in prison for child molestation charges. Not a very credible source/character in my opinion.

Jim Dilettoso – Wikipedia, Delettoso’s “work” on the Phoenix lights phenomenon:
“Dilettoso claimed to have used software called “Image Pro Plus” (exact version unknown) to determine the amount of red, green and blue in the various photographic and video images ….Several sources have pointed out, however, that it is impossible to determine the spectral signature of a light source based solely on photographic or video imagery… The maker of “Image Pro Plus”, Media Cybernetic, has stated that its software is incapable of performing spectroscopic analysis.”

Just because someone tells a lie in their life, doesn’t mean of course that they can’t ever be trusted. But when you make up bunch of BS whole cloth just to seek attention, within your supposed area of expertise…well, the jokes on the one who would cite this guy as a credible source on anything UFO related.

“This has absolutely NOTHING to do with “belief”. You’re apparently quite unaware that Stanton Friedman has known about the case for decades, wanted to be one of the people examining the evidence and has – shamefully – focused on the very dead-end Roswell case and selling his books.”

That’s his business. He can focus on anything he wants. Why are you relentlessly trying to change his mind? Controversial = Open for discussion, disputable, arguable…

“I’ve reached out to him over the years and given him every opportunity to say…SOMETHING of substance. He chose to peddle the distractions and disinformation about Roswell instead, while trying to attack the Meier case because he was exempted from mucking it up.”

Again. It is up to him to peddle whatever he wants. Does that make him a bad person?

“Do yourself a favor, if you want to post here to ”debate” or whatever, make sure you have your facts straight. If you think the Meier case is a hoax, don’t like how it’s represented, etc., that’s fine, you’re entitled to your opinion. But neither I nor anyone else is required to suffer the uninformed and lazy complaints of people who don’t know what they’re talking about.”

Just as predicted. Your pretentious, arrogant character, talking to people in a condescending manner clearly speaks for itself. Keep going Michael but don’t be surprised why no serious investigator pays any attention to you or your ‘controversial’ UFO story.

“The challenges that face humanity – and which are coming upon us – require that people get past the utter nonsense and idiocy of the UFOCI (UFO Community and INDUSTRY) and the various shills, phonies, profiteers, quacks and charlatans who are simply interested in making a buck.”

Attacking with insults is the weapon of the weak and narrow-minded.
Have a nice day.

Matt Knight

Jan Schultz,

“Jim Dilettoso – Wikipedia, Delettoso’s “work” on the Phoenix lights.”

Irrelevant and nothing whatsoever to do with the JPL, EG&G, USGS, USC laboratory-grade Multi-Spectral relational algorithm getting Spectrum Analyzer, Waveform Monitor, VectorScope and the Edge Analysis all done to FBI Laboratory division and IEEE standards for Data Coding into a Database that could detect a model, like Langdon’s, in about 5 minutes.

Maybe you should have stuck with the reading a bit longer than a few days, or, you need to re-read.

Jan Schultz

Your arrogant and condescending manner is EXACTY the reason why people don’t take you serious and/or want anything to do with you.

I am well aware of the Billy Meier hoax since the eighties. I looked at his pictures, listened to the sounds, read his spiritual writings, contact notes etc. and am still wondering today how gullible one must be to believe in all this stuff.

The overwhelming contradictions in the Meier fraud clearly outweighs your desperate attempt to qualify it as real through the opinion of a handful of pseudo-scientists.

So tell me:

– Who validated the assassination attempts?

– Who validated the WCUFO base looks like the Harcostar trash can lid?
(You don’t need to be an expert or professional photographer to clearly see that Phil Langdons pictures look exactly the same as Meiers. I actually commend him to have copied the ridiculous looking WCUFO.)
Don’t tell me the biased and emotionally invested Rhal Zahi. Btw. I talked to him and he said that he is no professor or has a PhD. So why do you list him as such?

– Who validated the MIB’s swapped the ‘great journey’ photos?

– Who validated the aliens went back in time and removed a tree and wiped locals memories?

Jan Schultz

I said what I wanted to say.
Obviously one can’t reason with people who suffer from cognitive dissonance
and on top insult everybody who doesn’t share their beliefs.

Bye

Darcy Wade Carlile

Jan all you are doing is proselytising your beliefs. You are boring to me.

Matthew Deagle

Jan, you are making a fool of yourself. You should stop before it’s too late.

Jan Schultz

NOTE: Several emails have been submitted by “Jan Schultz” which aren’t going to be posted until I receive verification of his/her identity.

MH

Jacobus Kotze

Wow, yes, Stanton really made a fool of himself. And you know what, I really almost felt sorry for the poor sod.

Sheila Clark

Don’t feel sorry for him since he’s a perfect example of cause and effect. Holding up bluebook like its a damn bible. It’s tainted and he knows it too.

Taro Istok

Jan Schultz, Magicspirit11, silvio8008. This joker goes by a number of aliases. He claims to be a former intelligence officer with the US Navy who’s had top secret clearance. I wish I had notification of these replies; I would have torn him to shreds long ago as I already have on a number of other pages, most recently

http://www.billymeieruforesearch.com/billy-meier-figu/ex-figu-members

UFO Billy Meier’s Space and Time travel Pictures – Real or Fake?
https://youtu.be/r-wISYli9DU

His original comment is word-for-word in at least two other places. Add lazy and unoriginal to his list of weaknesses. However his primary flaw is his inability to think for himself. Resorts to endless profanities and death threats when he doesn’t get his way. According to him, both Michael and I have terminal cancer we are unaware of. Information he is apparently privy to. I engage him for the sole purpose of letting him rant on, exposing his ridiculous excuse for logic. Otherwise, he is an enormous time-sink.

Taro Istok

No problem. Like many others before him and presumably many after he is prone to shady tactics. His agenda is suppression not truth.

Matt Knight

Taro,

Just want to congratulate you on your excellent work over at BUMFOR and on ‘everything’s a trashcan’ Land-on’s YT page comments. Mahesh has got some messed up people following him and logic truly does baffle them. Even Mahesh wasn’t that stupid before diving head first into the dark hole he’s so dedicated to now.

Well said Michael too. The people over there are becoming so obsessed with cults and religion, that you’d think it lurking around every aspect of their argument, like a demon of plain truth being kept at bay through a sad, illogical, skepticism. I’d rather be at church than in BUMFOR cause at least you get the odd bit of euphoria and singing (and I hate the church).

Look forward to your videos/info from your recent visit to the SSSC and it’s good to hear that all there are strong and well.

Taro Istok

Thanks but the “flowers” are unnecessary.

“Even Mahesh wasn’t that stupid before diving head first into the dark hole he’s so dedicated to now.”

It is very curious behaviour, I agree.

Sheila Clark

Makes sense that he’s being paid to “try” and debunk Billy’s information because none of these people would be doing it for free because it’s not in their nature to do anything for free therefore they don’t understand it. It’s obvious he’s dying of cancer and wants others to join him. I know of a few cancer cures but since this blog isn’t about cancer, only about the cancerous Jan Schultz (or whoever he pretends to be) he’s only trying to do a psyche job on you two when in fact he hasn’t a clue.
But he’s obviously in the Stan da mans camp as it seems to piss him off that Stan is clearly unable to fight his own battles and like a good little soldier has taken it upon himself to defend the undefendable.

Taro Istok

Psyche job for sure. Mind games are part of his M.O.

Jacobus Kotze

Taro, you deserve a medal for your patience and logical approach. All those hateful attacks and threats are just cowardly tactics used to divert attention away from the the facts.

Taro Istok

Thanks, but again, “flowers” are unnecessary. The only reward I seek is a more logically thinking society 🙂