Michael Shermer: Skeptic, Defamer…Rapist? Part 2

In his own words, the cowardly, characterless man who’s defamed Billy Meier for years, indicts himself as a manipulative fraud and phony


What Happens When you Give a Man Enough…Rope

Regarding Michael Shermer: Skeptic, Defamer…Rapist?, please read the exchange below between Andrea and him carefully and consider that he has indulged in cowardly character assassination and unsubstantiated claims against Billy Meier, for many years. No real scientist – or any decent person – thinks, or behaves, this way.



“If you subscribe to theyflyblog and/or have listened to the interviews Michael Horn has given over the past few years, you know that he has attempted to engage and debate with UFO Skeptic Michael Shermer—without success. I thought I would try my luck.

As the coronavirus is at the fore of most people’s thoughts, I began my correspondence with Mr. Shermer by asking him how it was possible for Billy Meier to know of, and publish, all of the most important aspects of COVID-19 before official sources like the CDC and the WHO.

Eventually, Mr. Shermer did respond, but not to my original question. Instead, he changed the subject to the photographic evidence. I then asked him to substantiate his strong claims against Billy Meier’s UFO evidence, as well as his personal attacks against Billy. I requested that he explain to me, the reasons why he found the conclusions (that indeed authenticated the case) of the experts who used their professional skills and state-of-the-art equipment to analyze the evidence, to be wrong.

While I appreciated Mr. Shermer’s time, I decided it best to leave the discussion behind, when I realized my questions would never be addressed.”

~Andrea Logue

On Jul 22, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Andrea Logue wrote:

 Hello Mr. Shermer,

I am contacting you because of your reputation as a scientist and skeptic.

Since June of 2018, I’ve been closely following Michael Horn of theyflyblog concerning the Billy Meier UFO Contacts Case.

Putting aside the UFOs for a moment, the following caught my attention:

From February:


From July:

Swiss Publisher, FIGU, Foretold SARS-CoV-2 Infections in Womb in February; First Case Just Confirmed in France

Warnings of COVID Asymptomatic Spreader Severity from Swiss Sources Published Before CDC

Michael Horn claims the following to be accurate:


If this is true, what do the skeptics say about the CDC, the WHO, etc. confirming his information?


Andrea Logue

On Jul 24, 2020, at 2:26 PM, Andrea Logue wrote:

Hi Mr. Shermer,

Having reached out to to you only two days ago—to call upon your expertise—I realize you may not have gotten around to my email quite yet. We are undoubtedly living during unprecedented times, and I remain curious as to what your take is, on the information I provided in my previous email (below). I add this link https://www.facebook.com/JOEROGAN/  —because it seems there are a growing number of individuals calling for the Meier information to be brought to light and for Michael to be interviewed. I would appreciate a response at your earliest convenience.


Andrea Logue

On Jul 29, 2020, at 2:42 PM, Andrea Logue wrote:

Hello MS,

As I’ve explained before in previous emails, I subscribe to theyflyblog, and was recently informed by a friend, of a comment that was made just days ago in response to this blog here: 


I’m curious to know if this comment was from you? Or, is this merely what goes on in the mind of a “snickering old hatskeptic”?


Andrea Logue

On Jul 29, 2020, at 2:48 PM, Michael Shermer wrote:

Not me. Never heard of The Fly Blog. As for Billy Meier, the less said the better.


On Jul 29, 2020, at 4:13 PM, Andrea Logue wrote:

Mr. Shermer,

While appreciative of your getting back to me, I am admittedly let down by your response pertaining to Billy Meier because I view you as someone scientifically minded. Regarding the abundant, independently analyzed and authenticated evidence, I ask you to please reconsider your quick response, “the less said the better”. What exactly is it that you base your dismissiveness on? 

And, how is it possible that Mr. Meier knew all of this information about COVID-19 before the CDC & WHO? How is it possible?https://theyflyblog.com/2020/07/18/pr-reference-page/


Andrea Logue

On Jul 29, 2020, at 4:37 PM, Michael Shermer wrote:

Andrea, do you consider these photos of kids toys to be authentic UFO spacecraft?

(Three authenticated Billy Meier UFO photos.)

On Jul 29, 2020, at 6:46 PM, Andrea Logue wrote:

Mr. Shermer,

I don’t mean to embarrass you, but all of the information I am sending you is freely available and easy to find. Honestly, before June of 2018, I was never that interested in UFO’s/ufology. I was originally introduced to the Billy Meier UFO Case through these documentaries: The Silent Revolution of TruthAnd Did They Listen, and as the time fulfills. I came across them randomly via amazon prime.




I’ve also watched and listened to all interviews I could find with Michael Horn, the American Media Representative who volunteers his time in discussing the many aspects of the case from the physical evidence to what he calls the “higher standard of proof”. Through my own scrutiny over the past two years, I find the case to be real.

Concerning Mr. Meier’s evidence that I referred to previously, rather than list everything separately, as there is a plethora of information, I’m copying this link directly from theyflyblog for your convenience: 


In addition to the various analyses of Mr. Meier’s photographic and film evidence of UFOs, you’ll find analyses of the sound recordings and metal samples, as well as a number of comments from recognized scientific experts from NASA, JPL, McDonnell Douglas and so on. I find it interesting that these analyses span over 40 years, from the 1970s until recently—all of which confirm the authenticity of the evidence!

There are also the opinions by the USAF OSI investigator (Joe Tysk), the NASA engineer and a trial lawyer, all of whom seem to have carefully examined the evidence and didn’t share your opinion about any “kids toys”.

This link contains an abundance of fascinating information too: 


It shows that Mr. Meier published specific, subsequently confirmed facts about Mars, black holes and more, decades before NASA. How is it possible?

And there’s still the COVID-19 information that you haven’t addressed yet:


There are over 20 examples in the above reference page that Michael Horn claims, prove Mr. Meier published the information before the WHO/CDC, etc. From what I’ve checked, that appears to be correct. So I ask you once again…

How did Mr. Meier know all of this highly detailed planetary, and other scientific data PLUS the COVID-19 information? How is it possible?


Andrea Logue

On Jul 29, 2020, at 8:22 PM, Michael Shermer wrote:


Of all the UFO claims I have heard over the decades, there is none so ridiculous and laughable as those of Billy Meier. These are simply faked photographs, and poorly done at that. His own wife says he’s a fake. No one in the UFO community of believers thinks that they’re real. I.e., don’t take my word for it, since I’m a skeptic of UFO claims. Listen to the opinions of those who believe that UFOs represent alien spacecraft and they too think he’s a fake. 

For example:

In 1997, Meier’s ex-wife, Kalliope, told interviewers that his photos were of spaceship models he crafted with items like trash can lids, carpet tacks and other household objects,[18] and that the stories he told of his adventures with the aliens were similarly fictitious. She also said that photos of purported extraterrestrial women “Asket” and “Nera” were really photos of Michelle DellaFave and Susan Lund, members of the singing and dancing troupe The Golddiggers.[9] It was later confirmed that the women in the photographs were members of The Golddiggers performing on The Dean Martin Show.[1]

I repeat my question: do you, Andrea Logue, think that this photograph represents a spacecraft from an extraterrestrial source?

(Billy Meier authenticated UFO photo.)

A 5-year old child could construct a better model than this. In fact, we had such children do just that for a television show:


The only person more delusional than Billy Meier is Michael Horn, but I won’t go there with that as you’ll probably send all this to him and he’ll email me a thousand emails over the next week. 

But if you think Billy Meier is prophetic and can predict the future, how about some predictions instead of post dictions. For example, ask him who is going to win the 2020 US presidential election. He has a 50/50 chance of being right on that one, and he’ll probably still get it wrong. 


On Friday, July 31, 2020 11:21 AM, Andrea Logue wrote:

Mr. Shermer,

Let me make this easier. As an expert, you’ve claimed that Mr. Meier’s UFO photos are fakes.

These independent, scientific and photographic experts, including from NASA, JPL, etc., disagree.

Why are they wrong?

Scientific Experts’ Comments on Meier’s UFO Evidence

Analysis of Meier’s ET UFO Photographs

Rahl Zahi’s Analysis Report on the Pendulum UFO

Rahl Zahi’s Analysis Report on the WCUFO

USAF OSI Investigator Concludes Billy Meier UFO Case Real

Please be specific and substantiate your claim to the contrary.


Andrea Logue

On Aug 6, 2020, at 3:17 PM, Andrea Logue wrote:

Mr. Shermer,

By now, if you were a person of integrity, you would have definitively substantiated your claims in opposition to the many experts who conducted their fair analysis of the physical evidence. I remind you that the photographic, film/video, metal samples, and sound recorded evidence was concluded to be authentic. You would have also addressed your slanderous defamatory attacks against Billy Meier himself with factual evidence to back them up. You did neither.

Really Michael, who in their right mind would “believe” or rely on the words of a disgruntled “ex-wife”? Were you not aware that in the late 70’s Kalliope freely admitted to being an eye witness to the craft and the Plejaren humans? 

It’s perfectly clear now why neither you nor any other self-proclaimed skeptic of the case will debate Michael Horn, since he has established the singular authenticity of Mr. Meier’s evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. 


Andrea Logue


On Thursday, August 6, 2020 4:52 PM, Michael Shermer wrote:

Andrea, i asked you who believes the photos of kids toys dangling from fishing line or tossed hubcaps thinks they represent ET spacecraft. You sent me a URL to Horn’s webpage. Can you provide actual names of scientists who I can contact and get quotes from them about the Meier photographs? I will reach out to them to get their opinions.


On Aug 7, 2020, at 3:35 PM, Andrea Logue wrote:

Mr. Shermer,

I am flabbergasted that you’ve chosen to publicly stand in such opposition to the case, for so many years, yet freely admit now, that you’ve never done the basic, and very necessary research it takes to draw a credible conclusion.

As you’ve asked for, here again are the names and comments of some of the independent experts who’ve analyzed and authenticated Billy Meier’s UFO evidence, which isn’t only photographic. The links found below will take you to the documentation, that of course Michael has on his website, but you will see, he is not the author of them.

This link Scientific Experts’ Comments on Meier’s UFO Evidence has information extracted from a book by Gary Kinder, the author of Light Years (Amazon). Kinder, a skeptic, obtained quotes from the independent scientific experts he quoted on that page. All quotes were signed off by the scientists, as part of the terms of publication. Michael Horn is one of the people who’s reproduced this page.

This page Analysis of Meier’s ET UFO Photographs contains the original analysis of Meier’s UFO photos by Jim Dilettoso, as published by the lead military investigator, Lt. Col. Wendelle Stevens.

This page Report on UFO Sound Recordings has a report on the analyses of the sound recordings taken of the UFO’s, also witnessed/heard by numerous people outside in open areas.

These pages Rahl Zahi’s Analysis Report on the WCUFO and Rahl Zahi’s Analysis Report on the Pendulum UFO present two of the most recent analyses. There is a newly published book, They Are Here, by Francisco Villate and Chris Lock, who are also the authors of Researching a Real UFO. Since Chris Lock and Francisco Villate have done the most recent analyses with the most modern equipment I highly recommend you contact them first, and explain why it is, in your opinion, they have drawn incorrect conclusions.

From what I understand, all of this independent testing was done using the state-of-the-art technology available over the last 40 years but unavailable to Billy Meier.

Any actual scientist who would claim that Billy Meier’s photographic evidence is hoaxed, is obligated to credibly refute ALL of the aforementioned independent expert analyses and authentications, with substantiated published results.

Michael Horn has told me that he is used to the evasiveness and amateurish behavior of skeptics who find it acceptable to defame a man – for decades – without having done the necessary work to do so. I personally find this type of behavior unacceptable and down right cowardly.

I am very interested in knowing what transpires from your contacts, should you make them!


Andrea Logue

On Aug 8, 2020, at 7:57 PM, Michael Shermer wrote:


None of these sources “verify” the photographs as alien spacecraft. They simply say that they cannot tell if they’re fake or not. That’s very different. But in this case quite surprising, inasmuch as it’s quite easy to fake UFO photographs. Here I’ve provided some fake UFO photographs with so-called “real” UFO photographs. Can you tell the difference? And if you can, can you determine how we faked them? 


(12 photos from Shermer were included here.)

On Aug 9, 2020, at 3:53 PM, Andrea Logue wrote:

Mr. Shermer, 

You clearly indicated you were going to reach out to the professional, independent, scientific experts who analyzed Mr. Meier’s UFO evidence, to specifically gather their quotes & opinions. You claim they concluded: “they cannot tell if they’re fake or not”. That is false.

For example: “We still find no evidence of fraud or trickery in any of these photographs so enhanced. On the other hand, we find details revealed that tend more to establish the validity of the story told by the witness.

While this development was going on and the procedures were being worked out, another of the Meier photographs of the alien spacecraft was sent out to Design Technology of Poway, California for a conventional photogrammetric and computer analysis similar to the method used by Ground Saucer Watch of Phoenix.

First, they examined the image field visually and microscopically to qualitatively evaluate the sharpness of the image of the object and the scene, and they found no discernable difference in image sharpness. Then color separation and black and white negatives were made at magnifications of 1 to 10. The resulting negatives were processed by a scanning microdensitometer yielding density contour plots. Examination of these plots did not reveal any details which would cast doubt upon the authenticity of the photograph.

Then the print, color copy negatives, and color separation black and white negatives were carefully examined for evidence of double exposure, photo paste-up, model at short range suspended on a string, etc., and nothing was found to indicate a hoax.”

So, it’s obvious you didn’t read the analyses and you didn’t contact the scientists. You simply made up an answer, which I find disrespectful and lazy.

Without question, you are guilty of disparaging and defaming Billy Meier for years without an iota of evidence to support your claims. This isn’t only arrogant and unethical, it’s detestable. You openly place yourself above honor and ethics, and your unscientific prejudices and egotistical confines point to the impossibility of parole. It’s truly a shame because there are good people out there in genuine search of the truth who understand the validity of the scientific method, something that is foreign to you. I offered you ample opportunity to prove your claims. Instead you squandered it and revealed yourself in the process to be dishonest, egregiously incompetent, disdaining of the truth and lacking good character.

During the entirety of our correspondence, you never once answered any of my unambiguously straightforward questions. Your sheer avoidance and skirting around reflects poorly on your abilities and credibility.


Andrea Logue

On Aug 9, 2020, at 4:24 PM, Michael Shermer wrote:

I looked up all of the names you sent me. I could find none of them online to contact. They’re either dead or don’t exist. If you sent me contact information for them I would write them.

All of the quotes provided in those documents simply say, in so many words, that the experts could not detect fraud. So? That’s not positive proof of ET visitation based on photographs; that’s simply an assertion that “in examining the photographs I see no signs of fakery.”

I sent you a bunch of UFO photographs, some that I faked and others that are “real”. Can you tell the difference? If you cannot tell how I faked UFO photographs then, by your reasoning, they must be real.


On Aug 9, 2020, at 5:50 PM, Andrea Logue wrote:

Hello Mr. Shermer,

From my email 2 days ago…

These pages Rahl Zahi’s Analysis Report on the WCUFO and Rahl Zahi’s Analysis Report on the Pendulum UFO present two of the most recent analyses. There is a newly published book, They Are Here, by Francisco Villate and Chris Lock, who are also the authors of Researching a Real UFO. Since Chris Lock and Francisco Villate have done the most recent analyses with the most modern equipment I highly recommend you contact them first, and explain why it is, in your opinion, they have drawn incorrect conclusions.

They exist and are very much alive. Here is their contact information:

Chris Lock gbcyd@yahoo.com

Francisco Villate francisco.villate@yahoo.com


Andrea Logue

On August 9, 2020 at 7:13:32 PM MST, Michael Shermer wrote:


You said these people who authenticated Billy Meier’s photos are scientists working for NASA and/or universities or recognized scientific institutions. These two you gave me do not appear to meet that criteria:

Francisco Villate (alias name Rhal Zahi) is a writer, painter, illustrator, UFO investigator, Amateur Astronomer, Coach, IT Project Manager, and Change Management Practitioner. 

Chris Lock has no bio to be found anywhere online that I can find.

But I do see the two of them have a self-published book claiming to authenticate the photos. Sorry, that won’t do.

Andrea, I’m afraid I’ve been rude in my correspondence to you. I apologize for that. Please allow me to explain how scientists think about issues like this. 

First is the burden of proof: the burden is not on skeptics or scientists to disprove someone’s claim; it is on the claimant to prove their evidence. So far no UFO claimant has been able to do this to the satisfaction of the high standards of science, including those scientists who are searching for ETs, namely the SETI community. They would LOVE for there to be evidence of contact. But they also have high standards of proof, which no UFOlogist has yet met.

Second, the principle of ECREE, or Extraordinary Claims Require Extraordinary Evidence. This is Hume’s principle of proportionality, in which we should apportion our confidence in a claim or assertion according to the evidence, and the more extraordinary a claim, the more extraordinary the evidence is needed. Take miracles, like raising the dead. So far, out of the 100 billion people who have lived before us, all have died and not one has come back from the dead. Christians claim that one did come back, namely Jesus. That is an extraordinary claim. How extraordinary? 100 billion to 1. Is the evidence proportional to that claim? That is, is the evidence extraordinary? No. It isn’t even ordinary. So we should be skeptical. 

Analogously, the claim that Earth has been visited by ETs is an extraordinary claim, one of the most extraordinary in all history. Is the evidence for the claim extraordinary? No. It’s not even ordinary. In fact, it’s as slim as it gets: blurry photographs, grainy videos, and stories about things that go bump in the night. Okay, I know Meier’s photos and videos are not grainy or blurry. But as I demonstrate in this television program on how to fake UFO photographs, anyone can do it, even children, and produce photos just as good as Meier’s, so we must reject such “evidence” as invalid.

What would it take to convince me? For signals from space, something along the lines Carl Sagan proposed in Contact: a series of prime numbers that would not be naturally produced by astronomical phenomena. In Signal Detection Theory, this would be consider a “hit” as we could reasonably reject the signal happening by chance or naturally occurring. For ET visitation of Earth, we would require an actual alien spacecraft or alien bodies. 

I know that probably seems too high a criteria to meet for acceptance of a claim. In biology, in order to name a new species a scientist must have a type specimen, an actual physical sample of the species. Photographs and videos alone don’t count because they can be too easily faked or misunderstood. 

Sorry to be skeptical, and I can see you are passionate about the subject. So am I. I would love to know that we’re not alone. But, alas, we have no evidence that ETIs are either out there or have come here, at least not to the high standards of science.

I am happy to write to any actual scientists whom you believe have authenticated Meier’s photos, but I doubt that there really are any.


Sunday, August 9, 2020 8:08 PM, Michael Shermer wrote:
To: Andrea Logue
Subject: Re: P.S.


We even got a photographic expert to sign off on our fake UFO photographs that he could not detect that they were fake. But they’re fake!

COMMENTARY: I was prepared to make a lot more comments about Shermer’s unscientific, evasive tactics, patent dishonesty, shameless hypocrisy, etc., but I think I’ll let that – and his own words – be sufficient for now.
Whatever the final facts and resolution of the charges against Shermer now, or in the future, may be regarding his being an abusive sexual predator, the very fact of their existence and persistence is disturbing.

A word about “Skepticism”.

By definition, Skepticism is a preposterous, prejudicial, unscientific ideology, that proceeds on the premise that it already knows what is real and factual about all things. In fact, they stand by the often repeated fallacy that, “extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence”, which is painfully inaccurate. How “extraordinary” was Galileo’s claim about the earth’s place in the solar system?

Actually, all that’s necessary is to subject any claim to the scientific method. Isn’t that actually obvious?

The really “extraordinary” thing is how rigidly religious Skepticism is, akin to the Church itself. And like their brethren in the Church, the High Priests and Grand Inquisitors of the Church of Skeptology aspire to stop the heresy of the truth from being revealed, an ultimately futile effort, thanks to Ms. Logue’s gentle perseverance.


See also:

Michael Shermer and sexual harassment allegations

Sexual harassment at atheist conferences



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Tony Vasquez

Publishing predictions of the future is great and very helpful. But it’s pretty easy to come up with accurate predictions when you have time travel capabilities like the P. have.

For example – Billy and Quetzal get into a beam ship and travel in time to when San Francisco is destroyed by an earthquake. Billy takes many photos of the destruction, and learns the exact day that it will happen.
That was as easy as pie.

If you had time travel capabilities/technology you could give many great accurate predictions yourself.

Also, it is pretty easy for the P. to share their great scientific and historical information with us.

What is difficult is people changing into the kind of people that are beneficial to Humanity, instead of harmful.

Start with yourself and your family and your friends – get rid of racism, materialism, Capitalism (which is modern day slavery), sexism, selfishness, greed, anger, arrogance, competitiveness, closed-mindedness, meanness, prejudice, unfairness, skepticism, fanaticism, and inequality.

Many of us dislike, even hate, the evils of the world, the wrong that people do to one another, the wars, the poverty, the diseases, the manipulation and mind-control, the social injustice, etc. But there is only one way these evils will be eradicated, and that is, one person at a time. Start with the person in the mirror. Change, become the kind of person that you would like others to be, teach the correct way to think, speak and act by word and example, especially treat others the way that you would like to be treated.

We are supposed to live in a society, and a good society in made up of good individuals, there is no other way. Seek equality, justice, and prosperity for all. There is no other solution to the many problems of the world.

Francisco Liranzo

Lets hope we can all be as subtle in perseverance as Andrea. Bravo!!!

Not surprised in the least that so called “scientists”are avoiding a real objective investigation on the Billy Meier case, since it is is happening for so long already.
“Too good to be true…”, I remember thinking to myself.
A very skeptical lad. So glad my research persisted during the years.
Never believing and never disappointed… so far.

This truth will endure the lies, the defamation, these times, and all of us.


Andrew Grimshaw

The truth never changes, it can’t, doesn’t have to; only the lies do.

Andrea Logue

Hi Francisco,
I am also glad, that you persisted in open mindedness, and were able to—through your diligence—recognize the truth!
Cheers & Salome!