NASA scientists informed that Billy Meier verifiably published warnings about the Red Meteor, now known as asteroid Apophis,13 years before “official discovery”
NOTE: The information here has been updated on May 6, 2015, since it was shown that Guido Moosbrugger’s book, Und sie fliegen doch!, containing the first verifiable publication of information about the Red Meteor, aka asteroid Apophis, bears the copyright date of 1991. Thanks to Mahesh for pointing this out to Matthew Knight.
There’s been some excellent new research and information concerning when knowledge of the Red Meteor by Billy Meier, now referred to by scientists as asteroid Apophis was first verifiably published.
Matthew Knight has discovered that the date is actually 1991, 10 years earlier than previously thought and 13 years before “official discovery”! Additionally, Matthew provides more information that supports Anton Hahnekamp’s theory that there could be a connection between referring to Apophis as the Red Meteor and the Torino scale. While that connection still remains speculative, there should be no doubt that Meier warned about this incoming object long before our scientists discovered it.
The following are Matthew’s notes on the new details:
1981
In Contact Report 150, Billy Meier reports that he met with an ET named Quetzal. Billy discusses the “rote Meteor” (Red Meteor) with Quetzal. (1) [Note: Meteors are asteroids (rocks without comas/tails) and comets (rocks with comas/tails) that burn within the Earth’s atmosphere, extending 483 kilometres from the Earth’s surface. That’s about 100 times closer than current 2015 scientific estimates for Apophis’s pass.)
1991-1994
‘…und sie fliegen doch!’ is published in several different language versions and printings, including the first German version from 1991, where it states that the Red Meteor will make a hole in the surface stretching from the North Sea to the Black Sea. (3)
1995
Professor Richard P. Binzel had the idea for a near-earth object (NEO) scale.
1997
Prof. Binzel’s near-earth object warning scale appears in print for the first time.
1999
The ‘Torino Scale’ is officially adopted by participants of the June 1999 international conference for NEOs, held in Torino (Turin), Italy, hence: Torino Scale. It predicts the hazard levels (0 – 10) of near-Earth objects with five colour codes; from white, level 0, “NO HAZARD” near-Earth objects, to, red, level 10, “CERTAIN COLLISIONS” meteors. A “red Meteor”, as described by Meier in 1994, would be a Torino level 9, “CERTAIN COLLISIONS”, code red, object. (4)(5)
2001
Guido Moosbrugger’s, ‘…und sie fliegen doch!’, 1991 book is translated into English in, ‘And Still They Fly’. When translated, the “rote Meteor” is changed to proper noun capitonym, “the Red Meteor”, gaining the status of a national adjective. The warnings about “land between the North Sea and the Black Sea” being devastated by the meteor appear on page 265. (6)
2004
Kitt Peak Observatory discover Apophis (99942) on Dec. 21st. Arecibo Observatory researchers say that there is 2.2% – 2.7% chance of Apophis hitting Earth. Torino level 2 to 4. Size estimates drop from 450 to 390 metres, (7) to “the size of two football fields”, or, 210-330 metre diameters. Torino drops to level 1, “NORMAL”, code green. (8). No “Red Meteor” associated with Apophis. Apophis will fly by Earth on 13th April 2029 and reappear in 2036.
2005
NASA’s Infrared Telescope Facility in Hawaii estimates the size of Apophis as 350 metres in diameter. Torino drops to level 0, “NO HAZARD”, code white. (7)
2006
1-in-45,000 chance of Apophis hitting Earth in 2036. Torino Scale 0, “NO HAZARD”, code white, asteroid. (7)
2008-2009
According to Contact Report 471, the Red Meteor “prophecy” becomes a prediction meaning it will definitely happen. Billy says, “…the Red Meteor… is not a prophecy, but a prediction and, therefore, a cosmic event. If I remember correctly… the great danger by the meteor would threaten Earth on the 13th April, 2029, while at the same time he also named a date for the year 2036.” Ptaah “And what to say about Quetzal’s prediction regarding the meteor; I can only confirm his information.” (9)
2009-2011
NASA: Apophis is 330-350 metres in size. (Hawaii’s Institute for Astronomy). The Arecibo Observatory recalculate the chance of Apophis hitting Earth in 2036 as dropping from 1-in-45,000 to 1-in-250,000. Apophis estimated to pass 18,300 miles away from Earth in 2029. Apophis is a Torino Scale 0, “NO HAZARD”, code white, object. (7)
2013
NASA: Goldstone single-pixel observations of Apophis rule out potential of 2036 Earth impact; Torino Scale 0, “NO HAZARD”, code white. The Herschel Space Observatory observations increased the diameter estimate by 20% from 270 to 325 meters, which translates into a 75% increase in the estimates of the asteroid’s volume or mass (7) which is closer to Ptaah’s 350 metres as stated in CR 475, part 2, published online before 2013. (10)
2014
China, France & US estimate that Apophis is due to pass within 35,000 kilometres of Earth (21,748 miles) away from Earth in 2029. (The moon is about 363,000 km away from Earth). No collision is expected. US scientists research Japanese data of observations in 2005 of another asteroid similar in size and calculate that Apophis “is likely” to experience “minor landslides” as it passes the Earth. Apophis could be a “…mass of rocks of varying sizes clinging together” and “some of the rocks would be moved by Earth’s gravitational pull”, whereby, “a thin layer of the surface would be removed”. (11) In 2036, Apophis is expected to get no closer than 36 million miles (57 million kilometers) away. (12). The “Icarus” Journal, vol. 242, publishes an article about how tidal effects are likely to cause small avalanches on the surface of Apophis which bring it closer to Earth than estimated. (13)
2015
NASA states there is NO HAZARD associated with Apophis. Size is about 330 metres in diameter. NASA collaborate with the ESA on the AIDA mission to impact a low-threat asteroid Didymos (800 metres in diameter) in 2022 and throw it off course with a probe travelling at 13,000 miles per hour. (12)(14)
Summary
The prediction is explicit: Apophis will create “a new continent, due to an enormous crack of the Earth, from the N to the Black Sea, from which will spew forth red hot lava” on, either, the 13th April 2029, or, 2036 – if nothing is done against it. (5)
Saturday, the 10th of October 1981, 3:15 AM:
Quetzal: “Earth humanity should listen to your words and warnings, but that especially they do not do.” (1)
UPDATE: May 4, 2015
My Polish friend has confirmed my findings about the Polish book, ‘UFO Z PLEJAD’ being the first known publication date (1994) for the “Red Meteor” prediction. He bought the book about 20 years ago in a book store in Warsaw and still owns it. He confirmed that the text in the PDF file version of ‘UFO Z PLEJAD’ is accurate and the Red Meteor information appears (in Polish) on pages 307 and 308 in the original book!
Billy’s “Red Meteor” warning prophecy was codenamed “red” a year before Professor Richard P. Binzel had the idea for a near-earth object (NEO) scale, 3 years before the scale was in print and 5 years before it was officially adopted by participants of the June 1999 international conference for NEOs, held in Torino (Turin), Italy, hence: Torino Scale.
For the 1994 warning to exist as anything other than an as of yet uncorroborated prediction, three subsequent events had to occur:
- Many scientists to identify, monitor, discuss a named near-earth object (NEO) that could pose a high risk:
Confirmed: (NEO) Asteroid Apophis discovered and named an asteroid in 2004 and given highest ever Torino Scale 4 that fell to a Torino 1 later in the year. Since 2005, scientists have said that Apophis is NO HAZARD, code white, Torino level 0 asteroid.
- Billy to publicly name an already identified NEO as the Red Meteor.
Confirmed: Billy’s conversations with Ptaah since 2008, including CR 475 where the Red Meteor is identified as Asteroid Apophis. Quetzal’s warning would be a CERTAIN COLLISION, code red, near-earth object and was this warning was in print since 1994.
- NEO Apophis, the Red Meteor to hit Earth if nothing is done.
Sources:
(1) http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Contact_report_150
(3)’UFO Z PLEJAD’ Guido Moosbrugger AGENCJA NOLPRESS, Bialystok 1994, ISBN 83-85212-11-6
(4) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torino_scale#/media/File:Torino_scale.svg
(5) http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1749-6632.1997.tb48366.x/full
(6) ‘And Yet… They Fly’ by Guido Moosbrugger Publisher: Steelmark; 1 edition (Sept. 2001). Language: English ISBN-10: 0971152306 ISBN-13: 978-0971152304
(7) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/99942_Apophis
(8) http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/apophis/
(9) http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Contact_Report_471
(10) http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Contact_Report_475
(11) http://phys.org/news/2014-10-asteroid-apophis-landslides-earth.html#jCp
(12) http://www.vox.com/2015/4/3/8340123/asteroid-impact-mission
(13) http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0019103514004126
See also:
*More Apophis information from the Billy Meier case:
New NASA Discovery: The Earth Is Round!
New Cartoon Warns of Devastating Impact from Apophis Asteroid
Scientists’ ‘New Discovery’ About Moon’s Surface Already Published
NASA Corrects Apophis Information, Size Is almost exactly what Billy Meier Foretold
Russian Meteor a Warning to Prevent Apophis Impact
MH, I think you’re on better ground with the general merits of Billy being a prophet as you presented at 10:49 pm rather than with the specific argument about Apophis confirming Billy’s prophetic accuracy.
There’s something called preponderance of evidence and there’s also the weighing of evidence, the consideration of means, motive and opportunity.
I have first hand experience in those areas of consideration, you may think my conclusions are wrong but you’re hardly making any remotely credible arguments against the facts.
Skimming the original blog post again, I think you’re probably right that we agree about the facts but disagree about the conclusions.
You have faith that Meier has correctly connected Apophis and the Red Meteor based on your belief in his honesty, which is based on your other experiences with him. Like Catholics believe Jesus is the Son of God in part because they believe Jesus didn’t lie.
On an unrelated topic, if you’d rather I stop posting, I will. I don’t want to make people angry.
It really is a related topic. I do have the discretion as to just how much nonsense and ignorant repetition I allow here. I don’t need or rely on “faith” and “belief”, I rely on logic, thinking, evaluating evidence, Meier’s proven character, means, motive and opportunity, etc.
The problem is that those factors are simply the same as…an unknown language to you.
You say “agree about the facts but disagree about the conclusions” and then simply offer your own unsubstantiated…BELIEF to try to explain my actual reasoning and thinking.
Your comment about making people angry is irrelevant; we all choose how we feel based on our own…thinking.
Well said..:)
I don’t disagree with any of your post of 1:05 am other than sentences 3 and 5.
Thanks for the comments, Michael. Really. It won’t surprise you though that I see a few issues with them.
First, it is more than a touch ironic you refer to my side of the dialogue—which has virtually entirely been a discussion of the pure facts—as “sophistry.” Especially considering your ‘arguments’ have been virtually entirely devoid of the relevant facts, and full of misdirection (Meier’s alleged credibility, me never having been to Switzerland) and insults about ‘thinking ability’ and ‘utter incompetence’…almost the textbook definition of sophistry. Please bear with through a little analogy:
Your arguments remind of a debate on existence of God I once witnessed. The theist talked about ‘irreducible complexity,’ noted how there are a handful of verifiable historical facts in the Bible, etc… and sprinkle a little Pascal’s wager on top, and ‘bam, I win!’.
Not so fast. The atheist rightly points out: the theist seems to think all these little bridges he is building to establish the existence of God get the job done, but none in fact quite get him all the way there. And even with a dozen such bridges, we can’t get to the other side if not a single one among them spans the whole divide.
An ‘abundance of prophetically accurate scientific and world event related information’ would almost certainly be an adequate bridge to establish the authenticity of the Meier case. But it just doesn’t exist…no matter how many times you repeat that it does.
Alternatively, talking about ‘preponderance of evidence’ is fair. (Although it would be helpful if we stuck to one standard, instead of you moving back in forth between preponderance and ‘ironclad’). I am open to the possibility Meier wins on preponderance – beamship photos are compelling (though it would be nice to have some originals) and the witness testimony sure is a head scratcher. Apparent lack of MMO indeed also weighs in favor of authenticity. But if we are going to talk about preponderance of evidence, we actually have to look at all the evidence. And all these extremely damning pieces of evidence that Mahesh and others have found, you seem to want to pretend don’t exist or try to sweep them under the rug.
Jeff,
How do you feel I am muddying the waters, something specific please? I am clearing them up by elucidating the facts of the matter. Unless you can offer something relevant of substance, its exactly insult-laden and fact obscuring/denying spiels like yours and MH’s that are muddying the waters.
Andy,
Enjoy yourself. You don’t find the case compelling and that the evidence points to absolute authenticity.
So why don’t you tell us exactly…what happened. How did Meier produce all of the still irreproducible photos, films, sound recordings, etc.? How and why did he publish tens of thousand of pages specific, brilliant, logical information, including what of what I refer to as the prophetically accurate scientific and world event related information, the spiritual teaching, etc.?
Oh yeah, how did he dupe 100 people into witnessing the things they did…including me? How did he provide me with the specific…prophetically accurate warning attributed to the Pleajren that prevented us from falling into a trap we otherwise knew nothing about?
How did he dupe 16 other people to perfectly pass the lie detectors of the time? You’re the one telling us it’s a hoax, now it’s your turn to substantiate it. Don’t worry about why we shake our heads at Mahesh’s and your claiming it’s a hoax…go on and, meticulously please, make the case for it. And while you’re at it, since you’re so sure it’s a hoax…why do you bother coming here to say it, never having made the case, just citing Mahesh’s theories…which likewise don’t explain, only attack and make claims that a man I’ve personally known for 15 years as well is in fact a liar, cheat, fraud, hoaxer.
May you never have the experience of being as wrongly accused as you and the other shallow, shallow thinkers so blithely do…while you sit on your butts in front of your computers.
And we go in circles. Thus I’ll keep it brief and be on my way (if I can keep my mouth shut this time…). Just want to set record straight on couple things.
I’ve never called Meier a hoaxer. And I am quite certain Mahesh hasn’t either. There is a difference between saying someone has not met their burden of proof, and calling them a liar. I am doing the former. Though I could speculate, I don’t need to talk about why and how he did it. But it’s these kind of misunderstandings on your part (not understanding the difference between maintaining skepticism vs calling a hoaxer) that is making a productive dialogue impossible. I know you feel the ‘skeptical challenge is over/been defeated’, but I disagree, particularly when the “prophetic” nature of the material has been pretty comprehensively debunked recently.
One SHOULD hold a good measure of skepticism in the face of such claims, and one would think that you of all people would be able to address such concerns without it getting personal and being so defensive.
One final clarification. You speak of Mahesh’s “theories,” presumably so as to diminish his findings. But, not only has he NOT called Meier a hoaxer, I haven’t even seen him ‘theorize.’ To date, he has simply tried to verify claims about the “prophetic” nature of the material (it didn’t check out), and also did research on some outer space photos (they didn’t check out either) – Mahesh’s sites are a pure presentation of his fact finding. His ‘conclusion’ sections typically go along the lines of ‘Was Meier first to publish so and so? Doesn’t appear that way…” or “Is this space photo genuine? Certainly does not appear that way…”. Not really any “theory” involved.
See Chris Lock’s response, it’s quite inclusive. To reemphasize a point, one must use comprehensive, deductive thinking in weighing the evidence, the preponderance of evidence, etc. And as Chris points out so clearly, this isn’t about 100%every specific detail accuracy when prophecies are provided.
So far though, there is no evidence that either you or Mahesh understand this “big picture”, which includes the mind-boggling fact that in the CR alone we have now some…40 YEARS of Meier’s ongoing “diary” of conversations that include all of this information, volumes of examples of factual scientific information. So, truly, unless you can show, can prove, establish beyond a reasonable doubt that he actually did acquire ALL of this information (we still don’t know what’s in the as yet untranslated German texts) then it’s actually impossible to discuss this with you.
You live in and with the reference point of the “online search” generation. Useful as it can be, it doesn’t and CAN’T even begin to explain the reality of just how this man POSSIBLY could have – let alone actually did – come into to possession of all this information.
Read what Chris said. And then if you really want to make any kind of a case, you will have to take the complete body of the already published Meier information as it exists in chronological order, and item by item go through and show EXACTLY where and HOW he verifiably had access to it, if the information was theoretical – which Meier’s never is – if the corroborated facts aligned with Meier or previous theories, etc., etc.
So far what Mahesh and you are carrying on about is enormously superficial in comparison. Tunnel vision at best.
MH, at 4:17 are you saying that a person (in this case Meier) should be assumed to be a prophet unless Andy can explain how that person got every piece of information that person wrote?
No, only part of it.
Ok, this my be fruitful. Michael, which part of the information would you like me to explain how Billy received it?
Any and all that you claim he did receive from terrestrial sources. Of course you also have to…substantiate your assertions.
OK, let’s assume for the sake of argument that everything BEAM has told us is basically true. If everything he has told us is true, then the Plejaran (and other member of this Galactic Federation) have the ability to get rid of this meteor for us, without loss of life or other detrimental effects to the rest of the solar system. We on the earth are not yet far advanced enough to get rid of this meteor/comet or whatever-it-is on our own. We have not yet reached that level of development. So, unless they just want to “teach us a lesson” it behooves them, so to speak, to divert this object from its potential trajectory into outer space, so that it can do no further damage. If they are truly benevolent beings, this is what they will do. If not, perhaps other benevolent beings will help us with this problem.
I’m not happy with BEAM’s ongoing threats and fear-mongering. If the people on this planet take him at all seriously (and I’m talking about the “simple” people here, who need religion to comfort them, etc, etc. . . ) they will only be very frightened by his prophecies and predictions. . . . events over which they have no control whatsoever. . . . . Do you get my point?
Carolyn,
There is no intention to “teach us a lesson”, with “threats and fear-mogering”. What the Plejaren and Meier have done is to…WARN us, well in advance, so that we can take appropriate action. It functions that way here on Earth…all the time. Various agencies, leaders – weathermen, for goodness sakes – give us warnings about all sorts of things that are SOLEY our responsibility to heed and act on or not.
We DO have control over most everything we’ve been warned about. But we’ve chosen to ignore the warnings,r idcule the source and…pray to outside, NON-EXITENT entities to “save us”. We have enough evidence that all of that doesn’t work. So perhaps now we’ll grw up and take care of business.
Carolyn so what you are saying is what we already have on this rock is not bad enough on its own? How could it get any worse without all out war, total destruction! So typical of religions to sugar coat such hate and terror already very much alive and present on our world. Guess in this the bar has to always be raised higher and higher!
I mean god as a delusion compared to no other, how could it get any worse within fear mongering and terror…. living and paying attention on this world?
We cannot even barely trust our neighbors nor leave our children unattended within this world we have strayed so far from the truth, of what the meaning of words we all use on a daily bases means. How in the delusion of jesus christs name have we strayed so far to see horror and fear in that which is truly trying to warn and avert these things WE have created?
As a religious person Carolyn, I wonder how we change the things on our world without lowering the bar of what is acceptable on a daily basis. Is religion the answer or the problem within the average person?
Hey Andy, Mahesh is incapable of investigating his way out of a wet paper bag, but somehow he’s the authority? LOL
Sheila, nice one!
I used to think Mahesh was a good investigator. Now I think he is just a fool.
Man, another zinger from Sheila at 1:39 am. It’d be funny if it didn’t hurt so much.
My knowledge of Polish is nill, but it does look like in the 1994 edition 350m is mentioned.
I think requiring poster’s actual names would be a good move, Michael. Before I didn’t think so, but it would make people think a lot more carefully before putting up a lot of superficial, off the mark, not to mention just plain foolish commentary that just makes them look so superficial.
What all these skeptics just don’t get is that prophecy is not s strict science and it never will be. They demand a 100% msterial proof of something that never has been and never will be 100% proven. This is the whole point of prophecy: a decision must be made without a 100% mathematical QED served up on a silver plate. If it could be irrevocably proven there would be no prophecy. I don’t think these folks are ever going to get it. They just waste their own time and effort and everyone else’s.
It’s not about belief, but considered opinion after weighing all the evidence and details available.
It’s more like deciding dream images, messages and meanings than science. A prophecy, to me at least, is an interpretation of something seen or sensed in some way about a future event or events. Just as with dream interpretation there is always the potential for error because we are dealing with an interpretation of a perceived reality that is the put into the language of words. How do you know the interpretation or final rendition in words is correct? No science can tell you this. It is IMO more an art than a science. As MH says one tends to come down on the side of preponderence of evidence without 100% infallible proof, just as in many court cases when the preponderence of evidence points to either guilty or innocent. As a member of the jury you have to vote Yes or No. You are not given the opt out position of sitting on the fence.
These skeptics, and I have nothing against healthy skepticism where and when it is warranted, obviously think all prophecies and prophets throughout all time, including ones like Nostradamus (just so we know are not talking only of Meier incarnations) must have been bogus or fraud because there was no scientific proof that they were 100% accurate. Yet a prophecy can also be right here and wrong there, after all, conditions and results can change, which makes a mockery of trying to be scientific about this. It’s not science; it’s prophecy. One’s feelings, intuitions, reckonings, logic, considered opinion, reasoning and deductive powers all come into play to help one make a decision, one way or the other.
Chris at 7:14 am: do you think that there is any single piece of ironclad evidence that Meier is a prophet?
It seems much will change on our world by 2029,2036. If has been talked about like with San Fran, so much will be happening at that time, that most will but glance away, towards it. As far as I can recall reading.
The one that gets me going is the warning that when a strong tornado comes to Europe the time is getting ever closer for things to get extremely out of control within ‘human’ rational.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/06/tornado-hits-germany-leaving-extensive-damage?CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2
Last few years have kept an eye out for tornado’s in Europe and low and behold one has come along. Could be nothing more than a quintessence but interesting. If this was the one then this fall would mean the beginning of the destruction. The threats we face are multifaceted and line up against us continuously….. especially as some can’t begin to except them with their real name, let alone our responsibility within it. I hope many are preparing defensively…. as it seems we are up against a wall to survive within our created future.
That one is small and in Germany only.
So for some it is necessary for millions of lives to be taken as a result of the Red Meteor impact before they can admit that Meier, in fact, told the truth? But wait – then it’s too late to act effectively??? What purpose can it serve to fool oneself like this?
When a natural disaster like a tornado or hurricane is forecast to come in your direction you don’t wait to see the damage from it BEFORE acting appropriately, do you?
Curlymoses, who was your comment meant for? I don’t want to be overly defensive by assuming it was me!
i want to see Andy’s evidence. Andy, are you capable enough to answer with real incidences to back up your position. Stop talking around the ‘proof’ and describe it with details.
Shawn, I know your question was for Andy, but for the general audience: evidence of what?
Hi Shawn,
I never said I had “proof” of anything. MH says he has proof. But if you are asking me about the evidence (not proof positive) that is indicative of hoax hypothesis, see here for starters: http://www.billymeieruforesearch.com
The gist of the message coming out of this dense and extensive research is that: not only does it appear that there is nothing ‘prophetic’ about Meier material, there are also certain ‘errors’ that appear to be instances of Meier backdating for purposes of deception. Also see the analysis of outer space photos, and San Fran photos. All these examples don’t necessarily prove case is a hoax, but they are fairly damning evidence if they cannot be satisfactorily accounted for.
The Meier case is evident rich, certainly. But it can only tolerate so many smoking guns. (I am not saying the case has been “disproved” [yet], but the smokey guns are starting to irritate my lungs).
Actually, the fact that the Meier case can “tolerate” such inept, amateurish, unthinking, inexperienced, hack “researchers” who continue to parade their complete lack of understanding of the comprehensive aspects of the case, established by REAL investigators who also understood deductive thinking…that is the most amazing thing.
Forgive me for this complete non sequitur, but the times that posts are shown as having been posted are very wrong on my screen. Is that a local computer thing or a website thing? Are other people seeing posts listed as being posted in the early morning hours?
I think I used the word non sequitur incorrectly there…
This bothers you when you don’t even have the courage to be a real person by name(entire given), culture, location, age, personality, picture! Sure one can deduce many things by mere words, yet. What time did anonymous scratch his a**, wipe his nose, pick up his coffee mug so eloquently holding all this information from flying away from him, and wipe his fluids on it before trying for the ace in the whole? I mean come on this drivel by people not even willing to to anything but play humpty dumpty? It gets rather tiresome and stinks of wanting that which will never put one back together again. At least in this life! If there is something worth fighting against I guess.
Philip at 3:09: You raise some compelling arguments. They have nothing to do with Apophis, though.
Don’t they? Following suite I would assume with how people hide so cowardly while thinking something has meaning in their little internet world. Go and Google it……
Why not just come out and say it…. Mahesh Karumudi, if that is whom you are. Sitting on your high fence waiting for someone to push you one way or the other. That seems to be what this is about…. more compelling information why YOU are right and Billy is wrong. Though that is something we all have to decide on our own accord as much as Apophis will hit the earth if nothing is done about it. It seems as far as I have read in the news that some countries are more than talking, and taking little steps towards action today. Though as with other things coming our way, 2028 will be a long and arduous way of. Especially with how cowardly most ‘humans’ seem to be!
Philip at 4:46: I don’t understand your point. At the risk of being inflammatory, your post seems more like a rant than an argument. If you rephrase your comment more coherently, I’ll reply. I’m sorry if that seems harsh, but I don’t know how else to say it.
At least two posters on this blog have asked if (or implied that) I’m Mahesh from the site that Andy cited. While I feel complimented, Mahesh probably has no desire for people to think I’m him and I can’t blame him. So, to be clear, I have absolutely no connection to him or his site, other than that I’ve read some of its content and find it very interesting.
Meaning how am I to take anything that is given by someone so willing to hide behind a word, on a blog, as but what it seems. At least some here have the courage, even if it is basic in its nature to try and at least be who they are. And maybe not all areas of our world are so forgiving?
This may be about Apophis and also that the man was able to create such a good record, extraordinary to put it lightly. It seems that one doesn’t need to have the biggest collection of Billy Meier related material to see the reality of the world we live in and its correlation(s). When those on a seemingly similar path cannot even find common accord, let alone know one another by at least a REAL name. How are we to begin to take reason with mere words. I guess it will have to be on faith:) as some need and see a reason for it by perpetuating it some ways.
I hope the logic in this is at least comprehensible to the point that we may not see eye to eye on these matters but are both here to at least try and move forward towards the truth. Hm ever you may be…….
As a result of witnessing this poor defense of the Meier case, I’m ready to come down off the fence and offer my opinion that the whole case is bull-pucky, excuse my language. (Unlike others, I’m not claiming to have ironclad evidence to support my opinion. It’s just an opinion.). So, I’m changing my username back to Moshe from the one Sheila gave me when I first sat on the fence (at least until she gives me a new one).
You came here with your opinion on your sleeve, so what is knew again?
Well Mr Fence Sittèr, I, in my thinking, I read Andy’s postings as denying Mr Meier’s statements as not being timely, accurate, original, etc. So I would appreciate his research to be shown up against the released Meier info. His confidence seems to be based on some information that must clearly spell out his findings, right? Just show it. That’s all.
I’m patient.
Andy referred to a website. I think you can reach it by Googling “Billy Meier Mahesh”. That site appears to go into excruciating detail about Apophis and other predictions.
Fence Sitter – it is obvious that you are a troll. So to those people who are trying to reason with him. Let me pull out a famous quote.
“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”
― George Carlin
I admit that some of my responses are somewhat troll-like, but in my defense, I’ve tried more than anyone else who has posted to keep this conversation on-topic. A troll tries to derail conversations. Also, I think my responses have been more measured than the posts I’m responding to. If that’s not the case, I apologize.
Fence Sitter (Moshe),
Your question of 12:07 (yes, a.m. times here) is irrelevant to me. Why are you asking for “ironclad” evidence of something that is not scientific? Neither a prophet nor prophecy are science. You remind me of Prof. Pritchard mentioned in the movie “Dead Poets Society” when Robin Williams, playing Keating, effectively tells his students you can’t judge poetry by drawing graphs and calculating.
In the field of prophecy I think it far more important to look at the prophecy than the personality or prophet/“prophet”. It is the message that is important not the messenger. The messenger is only important if the message rings true and even then only secondary. I consider whether a prophecy is worthy of serious consideration or not rather than trying to confirm whether the writer is a sanctioned prophet — a whole other issue and matter. A prophecy is given because its message, not the presenter, is important.
I consider the warning of an asteroid/meteor collision seriously, and always have because unlike most, I have sensed since I was a child that it is very likely to happen to our planet. That’s not science; it’s just something I sense and always have, just as others never sense such a thing and so tend to dismiss such warnings based on intuitions or feelings to start with. It is often the case with many prophecies for many people, but not always, sometimes a prophecy may be pretty obvious because so much evidence backs it up. Of course, then given all the evidence the skeptic will immediately say it is not then prophetic: “It’s obvious” or “We all knew that!” This pretty much preordains the life of a prophet as a tough one.
Theoretically, with near infinite knowledge and comprehension systems, much of a prophecy could be calculated, but due to the evolution of reality being an example of an extreme complexity system we just do not have the scientific or mathematical know how to do so. The Plejaren apparently have better understandings in this area than we do, but even they cannot predict everything.
A prophecy is a warning. How do you scientifically scrutinize a warning? Only up to a certain point. By its very nature there are unknowns, or it wouldn’t be a prophecy. There are only two responses possible for a prophetic warning (no matter what kind of prophet one is looking at): The warning is either heeded, or it is ignored or dismissed. Belief or disbelief are irrelevant. As with any warning it is the action — the “heeding” or “dismissal” — that counts. It is the consequences of both those actions that really needs to be considered. Of course, heeding a false prophecy could be as bad in effect as ignoring or dismissing a genuine one. Thus “prophecies” always present us with the challenge of real discernment regarding the matter at hand. Hence the lengthy discussions on this blog. This involves science, but it requires much more, and our ability to cognize. Don’t ask me what “more”, ask yourself. There is no universal answer applicable to everyone. These are personal questions that people must answer within themselves, as best they can.
Each person arrives at their decision, whichever it is, in their own unique and personal way, and takes the consequences. Science is merely one aspect that will relate to certain pieces of evidence that help us make a decision. Obviously the more science, evidence and fact there is behind the warning to verify the prophecy and a need to heed the warning, the easier our decision becomes to heed it; and the less evidence there is the easier to ignore it. The ultimate decision, however, is not going to be a scientific one because there is never enough evidence to provide “ironclad” proof.
Of course, if one’s decision is purely and only scientific, one will ignore or dismiss the prophecy because the evidence will always appear lacking.
In a sense this is the dichotomy we human beings face: We have to know when to best value and utilize exacting sciences to the best of our abilities, while realizing their limitations and that they will never be enough to tell us everything, nor will they provide us with everything necessary for our lives and how to evolve into the future as better human beings. If science alone were enough we wouldn’t be here. We are here because we are more than science and we need to learn to use that “more” — as well as science — and use it better, all the time. Prophetic warnings (whether true or bogus) present us with milestone opportunities to stretch such abilities, and how to better cognize the reality that faces us. May we all do so in wisdom for the betterment of mankind.
First, thanks for your thoughtful post. Second, I agree with almost everything you said. I was asking about “ironclad” scientific evidence because MH often claims to have a lot of it, and I’ve disagreed. I think it’s more about belief and spirituality than science.
I actually disagree with virtually everything Chris has just put forward.
By his ‘everybody gets to decide truth in their own special unique way’ he has not only moved the goal posts, he has buried them. And to be sure, their are adequate goal posts that could be used for this: all we need is a reasonably detailed prophecy that comes true. Ta-da! If Meier even accomplishes a few of these…Touchdown field goal, thanks for comin out.
But despite MH’s language, we dont seem really to have any of these (although there are bits in the Henoch prophecies that are likely specific enough that if they unfold according to script, that that probably will be putting the ball through the posts).
What Chris has done I think is called ‘special pleading’. He asks us to give undue weight to the prophecies of Meier. Why does Chris not lose sleep over the prophecy of the rapture? Why is he not constantly worried about the consequences of not being on Jesus’s good side? For someone who is a skeptic of Meier case — as one surely should be in light of the nature of Meier’s claim — the same non-concern for Meier’s prophecies prevail.
Granted, let’s say Meier is a hundred times more believable than the biblical rapture…but a hundred times a little, still aint much. Chris kinda acknowledges that in reality all we can really do is act upon our assessment of the strength of the evidence, but he then goes onto suggest there is something beyond science and rational inquiry (‘faith’?) that can lead us to truth. And he seems to particularly to want us to lend this faith to Meier case but not other prophecies. Why?
Another thing I shoulda made clear: Chris is now speaking of ‘prophecy’ and thus muddying the waters because MH is talking about Apophis as a ‘prediction’ and we know those are different things according to Meier…
I agree with Chris and it’s obvious who is muddying the waters.
I think the Plejaren are good and just counselors because they advised Billy Meier of the Apophis meteor for our benefit back in 1981. Had we listened back then or even again in the 1990s when we were re-warned we could have done something in time to stop it. Speaking of counselors, I think Michael Horn is like wise because I have been researching his material in the past 5 years or so and I admit he too gives good advice.
MH is one of the most devoted supporters of a cause I’ve ever witnessed. When he’s on a podcast, he’s warm and charismatic. He’s a great advocate for Meier’s cause and Meier is incredibly fortunate to have him.
I can’t agree with you about the Plejarans, though. They’ve really screwed Billy over numerous times, which I’d be glad to discuss in the unlikely event someone wants to hear it.
You are wrong. Humans have done more to screw each other over, more than anyone else, including the Plejaren.
The blame always goes somewhere else! Nicely put Sheila!
I disagree with your first point (of course) but agree with your second wholeheartedly.
Moshe,
If you can blame the Plejaren then they must be real. So what you’re saying is Billy’s contacts are real, but the Plejaren are not that good at giving Billy advice, or something along those lines. So what’s the problem?
The problem seems to be that the Plejaren expect us hobbits to confiscate Sauron’s ring of power and cast the thing into Mount Doom, with the result that the entire planet blows up and no one can live here any more (like what happened on Malona). Why is it that the little people are supposed to do what the “big” people are either “not permitted” to do or unable to do. Why is it that the “little” guy, who suffers the most in all this misery, has to do the “big” guy’s dirty work for him? Ask yourselves what is wrong with this picture!
Someone once said to me. . . “The only fairness in life is that we ALL have to die. . . . for if some died and some lived, justice would not be served”. . . . and this is why WE ALL HAVE TO DIE.
YEah, but as my bumper sticker says:
REINCARNATION: DON’T WORRY ABOUT DYING – YOU’LL LIVE THROUGH IT
Religion has made people feel helpless, powerless, dependent, weak, fearful, etc. I’m not religious and I don’t accept that we can’t do something if take one step at a time in the right direction. Moaning about won’t work.
We are dependent, weak and fearful beings because we have been abused. If you are not the abused on this planet, then you’re one of the abusers! Yes we will reincarnate, but every time we have to give up our lives somethings of what we have gained in that incarnation is lost. . . . perhaps not forever, but for a time. Every time you are born you have to re-configure yourself as a new person and it can be very difficult, even for an “old” soul to do this. This is why a longer life would be beneficial. More can be accomplished if one lives longer than 80 or 90 years.
The abused people on this planet are guilty of nothing at all, and shouldn’t feel guilty because they have done nothing to deserve the punishments that evil powers have inflicted upon them for thousands upon thousands of years, if not “ages” of time. The innocent people on this planet have nothing and no one to look to for help, if not Jesus or some other benevolent God-person. Religion arose out of need, not need out of religion. Just think about it for a moment, and try to get off your “high horse” of hating “religious” people!
Not so fast Carolyn, there are plenty of people who are neither.
If you don’t like Jmannuel, you don’t have to talk to him! Just don’t ask him for help when the hounds of hell are baying at your door! When that happens, just say, “I’m in charge of my life and I’ll deal with the problem myself.” They will kill you because they can. . . . it will not be otherwise because you in your arrogance think you control your own destiny.
Haha good one Shawn.
Shawn at 8:24: I was expressing the idea that if Plejarans are real, then they have really done a number on poor Meier.
Hi Moshe, Billy Meier has somewhat of a colourful past. I think if anything, the Plejarens are having a bit of trouble with him. . . . he is the piper, and he’s calling the tunes. . . . the rest of us are dancing.
Absolutely incorrect, Carolyn. Meier’s life’s work is the mission, which he has carried out admirably, the various pied piper’s have been identified and no one’s calling anyone’s tune..unless you let them. Self-responsibility is the essence her so perhaps you’ve misunderstood.
From comments I was reading earlier about the Red Meteor/Apophis prophesy/prediction of Meier, I got the impression that some may view it as an unreality. Evidence that exists lays before us all to examine. I think people are generally good and not misanthropic. I don’t think people desire destruction of human lives as more evidence for another accurate Meier prophesy/prediction.
I think the info is straightforward, but maybe for others it’s more difficult to connect the dots. If you can put the picture together on your own and you don’t like what you see, well… reality can be like that. The question then becomes: How to live with this reality?
Curly,
Please connect the dots for me between Red Meteor and “Apophis”?
I’m not sure what you’re specifically asking about the connection between Red Meteor and Apophis. I think all the information is available now. We’ll probably learn more from astronomers and physicists the closer we get to 2029 and 2036.
First you take a pencil and paper and draw two dots and draw a straight line between the two. See Andy, it’s really not that hard to connect dots.
It is for our benefit it seems to have this information. On and on it goes, one aspect of our world after another is there for us to see if we have thoughts, feeling, and actions for it.
The most vivid dream I have ever had was about 10years ago, waking to a loud noise and running outside with my family in tow to see an asteroid, rock fly through the sky and crash on the horizon. The last thing I felt, heard, smelled before waking was the impact as I embraced my family. Hey, I may be one humanoid on this crazy rock but man there is so many things that make this case irrefutable to me. Things I have personally read that later came to be out of my own surprise, waiting. Let alone the very basics of living within the truth of ‘creation’, which is ‘alive’ for us all to see and acknowledge! It is undeniable to me, as it is the truth. We are very much being contacted by highly advanced beings/humans from the extremes of our universe…. and beyond. They are obviously not perfect! As we also have A LOT to learn.
One thing seems to be true, the threats we face from beyond are but a glimpse of what we face right here in front of our faces… here on planet earth. How will we come together when we can’t even be who we are! Online, or in real life? I am far from a poster child but at least I am in my infancy at least! Got to start somewhere.
Hi Philip, that must have been a pretty wild dream. By chance, I happened to see this, as did thousands of people when it lit up the sky:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cXUVCJ_dqo
If it had happened five minutes before or five minutes later, I would never have seen it. This was the start of my search for the truth which ended up on Billy’s doorstep. Meteors are going to crash onto this earth, there is no doubt in my mind. The Plejaren and Billy in their warning about the red meteor have done us a huge favour by bringing it to our attention. Only fools disregard the warnings.
It was an intense dream! And not being one to always recall my dreams it has stood the test of time in my life as the most vivid in my 33years so far, in this life.
Though I am no scientist, and can see the meaning on the wall looking back. It has merit to the future. And we all know this world will be hit again and again…. it is our destiny. Yet, it is up to us what we will do about it as the ones within creation whom can create, contort, bend consciously within it.
Billy’s warnings keep piling up and some just cant help complain about the wording sitting on their posterior. If I survive the civil wars that ARE coming to this country I can only hope that more level heads are at the helm than those that nit pick our own future survival.
Possibly the dream is a memory of something that happened to you in the past?
I have dreamt about spaceships dropping fire down on the city that I live in presently. . . . and I could describe those ships in detail. No pictures of any alien craft actually look like them so. . ..
Probably a future vision of the terrestrial false flag UFO invasion. Or perhaps when Russia attacks Alaska and Canada will be drawn into the battle???
These UFOs were of a style and shape that I have never seen a picture of. They seemed to be smallish (maybe 50 feet in diameter), of a dull reddish color with protrusions that were maybe a gun metal or lead colour. They were hovering a couple of hundred feet above, and liquid fire was streaming out of them, setting everything beneath them on fire.
I can relate to your dream Philip, because I had a vivid dream back in the 1990s. I was running down our road heading south because Russian nuclear bombers were attacking directly overhead and one of them was dropping down because it was shot down and then I awoke before it crashed on me.
To Andy and Fence Shatter, as I’ve said before and Mahesh fails to address, when it comes to the universal barrier photo, why does he take the word of an unknown, unnamed NASA archivist as the truth? Is he just so thrilled that NASA replied back to him? Or was he just thrilled that NASA went along with Mahesh’s claim that the universal barrier painting was done in 1975? This is also known as leading, and has established Mahesh’s slant on the whole issue. Not a good technique if you are actually INVESTIGATING something. Even the actual painter never went that far in his claim and just quoted the unknown, unnamed archivist’s post. Which to me speaks volumes, the painter is towing the NASA party line. When the unknown, unnamed NASA archivist ever comes forward using his/her own name and makes the same announcement, I may consider it, but right now Santa Clause might as well have said it. This is the reason why Mahesh’s so called investigative abilities are lacking.
I have only glanced through Mahesh’s stuff on the photo. Perhaps I missed it, and I may have, but did he address the fact that the investigative team and others who saw the PHOTOS saw at least…11 of them? Were there 11 paintings in Geo?
Mahesh addressed 10 of them, I think, but I’m not sure which Meier photos were among the 11.
I went to the site you mentioned. I can’t speak for the author, but I think the site claims that there were 4 pieces of evidence that Meier’s photo was created after the almost identical drawing was created. One was the NASA archivist, which you mentioned. Another was testimony to Congress. Maybe they’re all in on the conspiracy, but the simple explanation seems more likely.
The aliens offered contradictory explanations for how the artist created a piece so similar to Meier’s photo. One explanation was that Baavi ETs sent a message telepathically to the artist (an example of how the aliens have screwed Meier over-why couldn’t they just wait a month or 2 to send that message?). The other was that the artist copied Meier’s photo “in a way that is quite outrageous”. This type of contradiction is another way aliens have hurt Meier.
Testimony to Congress can and has before, been bought and paid for. What is the name of the unknown/unnamed archivist?
Well yes that is true about the Baavi but in the contact notes it says the painting wasn’t done until 1976.
And the archivist’s name is included in the site’s analysis. It’s not “Santa Clause”.
What is the name of the unknown/unnamed archivist?
All the names are there. And who could be more trusted on the matter? WHAT MORE could possibly be done to investigate the question?
And it’s a little amusing that you compare the named NASA employee who has the best access to the relevant information as anyone on the planet, to Santa Clause…and this when the source of the information you believe is a white and bearded old man from the sky, who no one has ever seen and almost all doubt exists.
Actually Santa Clause is the name of a movie staring Tim Allen.
You may want to ask yourself why NORAD goes through the same pretend scenario every christmas eve tracking santa claus. Why is that even necessary? Does it make NORAD feel good perpetuating a myth? They lie to millions every christmas eve and no one thinks twice about it, including you.
Another fancy way to describe an elder of considerable age is “Ancient of Days” which isn’t something that can easily be tossed aside as mere fantasy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_of_Days
Also, if you play with Greek words, Santa Claus or Saint Nick is another way of saying Satan Nicolas. This is because Santa can be an anagram and Claus is German for Nicolas and Nikos in Greek is Victory. You can come to further conclusions on your own.