Or: Terrorists don’t care and they don’t sing kumbaya
It’s certainly heartening to hear that over 3 million people gathered together in solidarity in France. And I don’t mean to rain on anyone’s parade but let’s be sober enough to know that genocidal terrorists aren’t concerned with how many…unarmed people line the streets, wave their flags, express sadness and outrage, etc.
As I previously suggested they might even view such things as opportunities, though certainly there’d be some armed presence to contend with. There are already indications that they are using their familiarity with modern tools (usually reserved for more inane but less potentially harmful communications) to pursue every means of destabilization.
But would we even be having these situations and events if people had paid attention to the warnings from Billy Meier and the Plejaren, dating back to 1958, 1981, 1987, 1995, etc.?
Why must we always hear, “Why didn’t somebody warn us?” – about terrorism, climate change, global warming, nuclear disasters, etc.?
A Better, 10% Solution
Indeed it’s good to know how many people are at least philosophically opposed to radical fundamentalist Islam. But this isn’t the 60s anymore and humanity will have to awaken from its feel-good mentality if we are to survive. We’ll have to also get past political posturing and treating everything with the kind of can’t-win-if-you-do-can’t-win-if-you-don’t partisan mentality that is less than useful than the rally that someone did or didn’t attend.
So what if even 10% of the number of people who participated in the rally, drawn from all countries on Earth, were participants in the global military coalition that Meier and the Plejaren said would be required to effectively stop the otherwise threatening global genocide openly pursued by the IS?
The soldiers already exist; does the will to act also exist?
Traitors to the Truth
Some of you may remember Stuart Robbins, the skeptic who tried to take on the Meier case a while back and who had to resort to censoring all of the posts that clearly contradicted his pseudo-science. Wouldn’t you know it, Stuart recently asked me for help in promoting his obscure little blog, where two people constitute a crowd.
Well, he did send me yet another one of his shooting-fish-in-a-barrel blogs about “aliens”. And when I went to read the thing there was a negative comment about Billy Meier, to which I naturally responded. Of course Robbins, being psychic, knew I would and also knew that if, in his traditionally cowardly, intellectually dishonest fashion he didn’t post my response, I’d further oblige him by pointing out what a pathetic, spineless example of so-called higher education he is. You’ll notice that my comments aren’t there (just for the record, I kept a screen capture).
When one realizes the blend of cowardice and contempt for the truth, the inability to stand up and allow dissent and corrections to disinformation, etc., the only thing to be thankful for in this case is that without (or even with) help from those who slap him upside the head he maintains his obviously low level of readership. But he does keep on giving back as one of the poster boys for the pathetic pseudo-scientific, fame and fortune focused skeptics.
Robbins also recently discussed so-called “alien communications” with Karen Stollznow. Karen, it so happens, is married to a radio host named Baxter (also a friend of Robbins), who self-imploded during an interview with me a couple of years ago. The poor guy must’ve soiled himself in the process of his futile, profanity-laden rant, so incapable of dealing with the irrefutable evidence in the Meier case was he. You can be sure that I recently sent even more information to Karen showing how lame and inadequate Robbins and she were in their knowledge of the new and abundant information authenticating the Meier case, etc. With her, “No answer is also an answer” non-response, she seems to be trying to emulate that old saying, “Discretion is the better part of valor,” rather than risk revealing herself to be as lacking on all related fronts as both her hubby and Robbins.
The Weaklings of the West
The authenticity of the Billy Meier UFO case is too threatening to the various traitors to the truth, the debunkers and know-it-alls, professors and so-called scientists – who are more concerned with their funding and tenure, etc., than the truth. Having been presented with the incontrovertible evidence in the Meier case, how do they not look at the new, independent analyses authenticating Meier’s photographic evidence, the already unfolding deadly events in Paris and other countries – or those warned about and yet to come there and here – and instead turn a blind, cynical, profit-only oriented eye to it all? And what will happen when the long foretold, really intense climatic and environmental disasters begin to unfold…as they just may this year? Two phonies that come to mind are Profs. Paul Davies and Lawrence Krauss from – you guessed it – ASU. These are the kinds of people who epitomize the weaklings of the West that Meier referred to; they are no match for the modern day barbarians, not just in a physical sense but because, contrary to their self-promotion, they lack the clear, fearless dedication to the truth alone that keeps one upright in all things.
We Keep on Trying
To those who’ve sincerely suggested getting Meier’s information to people like Bill Maher, Neil deGrasse Tyson, Michio Kaku, etc., please know that I’ve tried steadily for several years. The former is heavily “protected” by flacks running interference and the latter two apparently prefer not to sacrifice any of their presumed “authority”, as is true for many others I’ve reached out to for some time. Nonetheless, I keep on trying and suggest that those of you who care also do because these are people who publicly present themselves as interested in these matters.
Get Peace Right
Mark Leaver has put up some really great work at this Facebook page, check it out.
Thanks, Michael. The mission is unending. I saw today that France DOES negotiate with terrorists, and pays dearly ($10 million per hostage) when it can. So if you are wondering where terrorists get their money, at least $50m has come from France. The money is sent to an intermediary (Turkish or Qatari intelligence) and then given to the terrorists for the release of innocent persons. There is talk of “false flag” with this latest Parisian attack, but I would like to point out that just because the video footage we see on TV may not be authentic, doesn’t mean that innocent people didn’t die. I’m pretty sure innocent people definitely died. Sure there are dubious powers that planned, funded, and carried out the attacks, but the corruption or Ausartungen is the root of the problem, and whether it comes from leaders or terrorists, more people need to hear YOU and Billy before change is possible.
Hey Michael have you had any more than the already stated and blogged encounters with Foster Gamble? If I remember correctly, he seemed to think Meier’s case was authentic, yet continues to blog to the contrary, unspecific ally? He also states, as many non critical thinkers seem to, that someone else must do all the work for them. As his ‘mentor’ seems to be Richard, come to take your money Dolan. So funny how everyone needs someone other than themselves to ultimately come to their own conclusions within this ‘field’.
Fosters latest blog on et/uof’s/ the money making industry that most definitely helps hide the real truth. Meaning ET/ufo’s- imagine how much YOU can believe……..
http://www.thrivemovement.com/extraterrestrials-imagine-possibilities.blog
Thanks Philip,
I just posted this there (we’ll see if ti survives):
For the sake of sanity, there is ONE authentic, scientifically proven UFO contact case, Billy Meier in Switzerland. Meier’s contacts are ongoing for…73 years. That’s 73 YEARS.
And you WON’T hear about it in the mainstream press and certainly NOT form the “UFO community’ that continues to peddle time wasting nonsense. Truth can be harsh and flowery words are insufficient for conveying it.
We have posted the three new, independent, expert analyses that authenticate Meier’s UFO photos, ALL taken pre-comuter/digital age.
We continue to post Meier’s specific prophetically accurate warnings dating back to 1951 that continue to be corroborated. He forewarned about the Islamic terrorism that we’re now seeing…in 1958 and what is YET TO COME in France, Europe and even…here.
People must get out of their internet induced fantasies about “aliens” and all of the tabloid topic content if we’re to survive. There isn’t ANY single, so-called UFO expert, contactee, etc., that can match the evidence, information and claims in this case.
Out of respect for this site I won’t flood you with direct links to over 500 articles, blogs, expert analyses, etc. You are invited to see – and challenge – the information at http://www.theyfly.com and https://www.theyflyblog.com.
Please, if you disagree, confront and challenge me, I’ll be glad to substantiate everything I said…and more.
Once again spelled out gracefully, with the hard truth.
See if there is any responses. Have had quite the interactions in the past, at this blog, with all the ‘contact-es’ Foster loves to blog with. Is mind numbing that one would even continue to stoop to these levels after saying they see truth in Billy’s case? Yet, you more than most know about these aspects of humans, and the truth surrounding it. Two faced all the way to the bank, and to the truth for that matter.
Now we can all only hope that Mr. Gamble goes the next step and openly endorses Billy on his website. I for one, hope that he will have you on his ‘show’? sometime in the near future Michael.
Great to see that he actually does want to ‘thrive’ in some way:)
That would be very nice.
Well I posted up my own comment on that web site which mentions the Akashic Records. Definitely kudos to them in my eyes for making an effort, and I can’t fault someone for possibly being off the mark. I can’t even say at all times that I am 100% certain about Billy’s evidence, but gleaning a little bit of sense and wisdom from his writings helps.
I can’t say my own style will work any better than yours, MH, but it was my intent. Plus I bet we can get in some good “flanking strikes”, by one of us taking one approach, and then before they know it … BAM! Logic comin’ at ya!
We shall indeed see.
Well, I have no idea if what we wrote helped, but it seems like the topic got onto a good route to me 🙂 What do you think eh? If we helped, that’s not too shabby 😉 I like working with you instead of against you. I want to be on this team, so I will put my efforts towards it.
Well it’s really not my place to say I helped in anyway, but it’s nice to see a positive statement there. I hope it’ll lead more people to the teaching. That’s really all I care about. Glory doesn’t taste that great, and is kind of fattening to me, like a fast food hamburger.
Since we all have the choice to do nothing or do something, and to do something worthwhile or not, what’s wrong with feeling good about diving into that pool of possibilities? I ‘m very glad that you’re participating there.
In fact, one of the ways in which we turn around the wrong-headed, New Age nonsense plunge, is to contribute in a balanced way to the discussion and point in the right direction. Then it’s up to the individuals as to what they do with it.
BTW, I should add that I draw much of my earthly sustenance in the material realm form gazing upon one of man’s most enduringly beautiful achievements:
http://www.lynxmotors.co.uk/xkss.asp
I suppose nothing’s wrong with it, but I don’t think I could handle the big name for myself, if I let myself get too excited by success and tried to make a big splash like you do. I had my little fanfare already in real life, and on the inside it made me go all roses, and just threatened to tip me over. So I could do without the cheers, since tomorrow’s another day, but hey, if I was wearing one instead of a hoodie I’d tip my hat to ya 😉
When you do things to contribute to the greater good, if that’s what makes you happy, it doesn’t matter if you make a big splash, etc. We all do what makes us feel good (certainly whenever we can).
Mike can drive his lynx down the pan am hiway https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuOO5qf-Hro
Wouldn’t it be more logical to just non-violently dismantle the Bafath’s Bilderbergers (we know all their names) who nakedly lie at the root of all this horror and death? (We also know the name of their “the-world-must-be-bathed-in-blood” terror-religion.) Instead, we are merely trying to literally COMBAT the violent results of this ruling* secret society’s secret genocidal/planetocidal machinations. It seems to me that getting everybody waging endless religious war in the Middle East is their whole (Bafath) PLAN, as usual, and – in the same way that Big Pharma treats disease – the main idea is of course not to CURE (bring peace), but to endlessly peddle expensive maintenance of the status quo symptoms (religious terror-wars and death).
http://www.globalresearch.ca/just-as-isil-gets-exposed-as-a-fake-us-enemy-a-wag-the-dog-terrorist-attack-in-paris/5423523
Billy also spells it out in no uncertain terms in his introduction to his 1951 letter to world leaders. It’s worth re-reading lines 13 -16 in this 2005 translation:
http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/gaiaguys/SFATH.PROPHECIES.1951.htm
(And please be aware that the laborious and long-awaited, “official” “Figuised” reworking of my English translations of the Meier prophecies and predictions should be published within a matter of days now @ http://au.figu.org/ .)
Ten years later, Ike knew the score. Nobody in the Oval Office has since, evidently.
President Eisenhower’s farewell address to the nation, January 1961:
“In the counsels of Government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the Military Industrial Complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists, and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals so that security and liberty may prosper together.”
Salome.
* https://theyflyblog.com/2014/10/16/secret-society-rules-earth/
It certainly would be a lovely, preferred way. Unfortunately, as we’ve seen, it may be even harder and take more time. As Meier also has made clear, there’s a time and place for using self-defense, which is not only a right but a responsibility under circumstances such as these.
I wish that were the case but mentally some folks are deluded into believing the way things are right is ok-enough without really understanding what “good” is because they don’t see being in one another. When given examples to the contrary I’ve had folks bully themselves even more if the truth inconvenienced them too much so I basically moved on and try to give my efforts to better ground. The Moron Collective are really that Dumb enough to follow through.
Dyson, Ialso belong to another organization called WESPAC Foundation which is a peace and action network. One of the issues this organization started to work on is the TPP(Trans Pacific Partnership of which President Obama and the Republican congress is trying to fast track in secret behind closed door sessions. On Monday January 26th at 6pm we will be discussing finding a way to use peaceful resistance on many many issues including the TPP and TITT(TRans Atlantic Partnership which includes Europe etc. We are trying to stop the military industrial complec, corperatism,terrorism,Keyston XL pipeline,race issuses and so on. If you would like to look up WESPAC, their webdite is wespac.org. Hope this helps. You can find out about the work my other organization does on their website.
Thanks Terry. I checked out the site and it looks to be very well-motivated, but I seriously think that practically all these noble local initiatives for common sense sadly represent a rearranging of the deck chair on the Titanic, if you know what I mean, and I reckon once folks can learn the TRUTH about Billy, all these local demolition derbies all over the world will soon end without a fight, through simple lack of public support.
Cheers!
Thanks Dyson I agree with you but we need to make our voices heard not just locally but nationally and internationally too as well. I spoke to the director about this and she agrees with me that we should franchise our organization more in order to get our message out to this entire world otherwise you know what will happen next if we don`t WW3, WW4 or even worse! We need to get our voices heard!
It sure would be nice at least get a name for this Secret Society. Why Billy refuses to name them is beyond me. We need to put the light on them & we can’t do that until we know exactly who they are.
Norm he probably did in German CR or in a private conversation with the core group 49.
I suspect since he used the plural for group, Bilderberg meeting may not be only one he was referring to.
I mean C’mon are people going to tell me that the people who created the James Bond movies had a wild imagination and that there was no truth to some of the elements in it such as the meeting held by Dr No prior to one of the characters being fed to a shark.
The top secret special access programs are just that, a top secret therefore the state of the art underground and underseas facilities built with deep black budget funding to the tune of trillions can only be accessed by those who have need-to-know special access permits.
So those few who actually control access are essentially the group within a breakaway group who are the ones persuing their own agenda for world control from the corporate military intelligence industrial complex.
Now these Dark Order fellas might just one day think about a meeting over a weekend BBQ at underground central wink wink then off to the Bilderbergers then to the CFR and next week to EU council then later that month to the board of governors meeting at the Federal Reserve then to the BIS then straight off to the Bohemien Grove then to the initiation ceremony at the Freemasonic lodge then maybe to a child sacrifice ritual at the OTO in the Hearst Castle then to area 51 level 7 to pop into a ARV to travel to Pine Gap for some underage sex orgy then back to US to oversee a fake alien abduction operation and cow mutilation at Bigelow’s Skinwalker Ranch afterwards get dropped off at Goldman Sachs headquarters for directors meeting then scurry off once again to Carnegie and Ford foundation for some fundraising then afterwards a meeting with the president of US and finally to wall street stock exchange to close out the day.
All in a days meeting or rather ‘work’
These people claim to be scientific because they memorized facts at school, but ask them to check on anything and they don’t know the first thing about the scientific method. They’ll jump to conclusions without testing, dance around it, ignore it, make excuses, but the last thing they will do (if ever) is apply the scientific method and find out for themselves. I learned this from doing science fairs as a kid. Make a hypothesis (a guess) first, TEST IT and then make a conclusion based on what was discovered in those tests. Not “make a hypothesis, avoid testing it and then ass-ume your hypothesis is correct”. That’s believing, not understanding. Your elementary teacher would give you a big fat “F”. You could cry about it but if he was a good teacher, that’s what would happen.
Hypocrites and know it all’s. Good thing no real scientists who made genuine breakthroughs ever did that or we’d still be stuck in the stone ages brushing our teeth with last months ribs.
It’s elementary Watson!!!!
Ps. It wouldn’t surprise me a bit Michael if this so called Stuart Robbins was just a government CIA or whatever paid troll to spew out disinformation. However, I know many genuinely stupid people. Maybe he is just one of those. But there aren’t too many other options.
I think they would have fired him by now it that was the case.
“I wish they did fire that Stuart Robins”!
Hahaha oh man that was a good one. Too funny, too funny. I got a good laugh from that ribs comment, so thanks for that 😛
Right On Daniel.:))
I was reading this thread and during the time was watching the tv show brain games on national geographic channel . And wouldn’t you know that making a joke about the left side of your brain working to justify itself it flashed a picture of a UFO that Billy had taken . Wow , they even insulted us by saying that it was a hubcap and our brain was telling us other wise . Are you freaking kidding me . Is it that ingrained into society now that we have to use a mental program to dis connect the dots from a person . Wow . Now we give vaccines that impregnate , give ideas that imperviate and look to see what happens . Are the ideas working ? High fructrose corn syrup or X BOX or the flash rate of your TV . Yep , just fine . Good slave .
Wow , I read through this thread and now type to my demise . I think each keystroke leads to another black hawk helicopter to take me out or just a drone , when they can find the help . Train them as you may . It goes like this ….. Are you kidding me ? Darn belief in the right thing is simple . Its not gonna take a scientist to figure out . So we have to just get a cup of coffee every day and look at the nutzos and simply say enough . Enough is enough . Is it not . If it isn’t . Then ask for more of this crazy town
David WESPAC is also trying to stop armed drones from killing innocent civilans mostly in the Mddle East. You need to know that the Honeywell Corperation is part of the military industrial complex that Eisnehower warned us about in his farewell address back in 1961. “If you see ANY product made by Honeywell such as fans, air purifiers etc, DON`T buy ANY of their products otherwise you`ll be supporting the military Pentigon BIG SHOTS with all their money spewing like a hurricane! Hell they even got bunkers in Kansas to save their necks not us poor human beings etc”!
Wow , I just read my commentary and have to say , I need to give you a visual . When I was a kid , I mean a kid , that’s over forty years ago . I was reading the coolest automotive magazines and they were nuts . How about this . A ten thousand horsepower engine sitting on the back of a sled . Its got front skis like a snowmobile and its got tracks like a tank . Darn Tommy IVO or Tv as he was known . Tommy TV IVO . A snow sled with tracks man . Geez , I hope I took your brain away for a moment that is reality . This brain game show is taking me to the matte . Geez , Its the reality that is the thing . Got something for me ….
MH,
I don’t understand the Robbins bit. He asked you to help him promote his blog??? In what way? Weird. And what did you say in the comments that got blocked? Thanks.
That was a bit of…sarcasm. I was inferring that by getting his blog (it’s actually one of a number that I receive notifications of) which was one that happened to have, out of the two comments there, a negative comment about Meier, that he was “asking” (or begging) me to promote it. My comments there stated that there were new photo analyses as well as corroborations of Meier’s information, including the dinosaur in PAtagonia. I also mentioned Karen Stollznow, Baxter and his meltdown and that I’d gladly debate them and everyone at JREF. I posted no links (which could have been an excuse to not post my comments) and I correctly predicted that he wouldn’t post my comments.
Now that it appears that you and Simon admit that you think the case is authentic – though the instigator for the confusion still hasn’t said anything – tell us what you think is not authentic and how Meier “haoxed” it, which is precisely what you’re still saying. You say the evidence isn’t ironclad because you’ve found that Meier did…what exactly?
Come on, spit it out, you KNOW that Meier actually backdated info, etc., right? So please go ahead, which info, how, when, by what provable means?
And of course please answer Andy’s points as well.
Just used the last bit of what you wrote there for a friend who’s grappling with the same issue. Thanks 🙂 Well put.
Actually, I never said Meier hoaxed anything. What I did say is that things which you and others within FIGU have held out as examples of Meier’s foreknowledge, are no such thing. As Mahesh demonstrated, in every example looked at, someone had already published the same thing. This is not knocking Meier, only certain claims about the informational evidence. And I’m sure it was honest mistakes on your guys’ part. (Of course, if you continue to promote those so called corroborations, then this is not an honest mistake anymore, but plain fraudulent. Also, “honest mistakes” might be a little euphemistic to begin with, considering you never actually had proof Meier published in 1952, ’58, ’87, etc. — “gleefully gullible mistakes” is perhaps a better term [admittedly, mistakes of which I and Mahesh had succumbed to as well]).
Does all this mean I’m calling Meier a hoaxer?–no, it simply means that if someone claims that someone is in contact with ET’s, and says the foreknowledge in his writings proves this, then I would simply like proof the writing was indeed published at the relevant time and that he was truly the first to publish the info. If this is lacking, he may still be in contact with ET’s, but the proof of the authenticity of the case is not demonstrated by these writings. I don’t know how I can be any clearer. We’ve been over this ad nauseam.
And one more time on the burden of proof issue — which for some reason continues to be failed to be understood — and then I will drop it forever:
Even if I did say that I thought Meier was not truly in contact (which I never said), it is not incumbent upon me to “prove” this. How about this — prove God does not exist. You say he doesn’t exist…so, prove it to me. How can you have such gall to say there is no God, when you have not yet shown me every corner of the universe? Thus, everyone should believe in God, and you are a lying fool because you think there is no God whilst you cant even prove it.
As someone who talks a lot about logic, you must be aware that it is nearly impossible to prove a negative statement (such as “Meier is not really in contact with ET’s”).
But since you brought up hoaxing — there actually is increasing evidence of this. Such as the Ice Man info, the space photos, the Ozone info, and the MUFON info, found on Mahesh’s site…and yours and FIGU’s evasive and defensive responses to such have not allied concerns in this regard.
Although as recently as last night I said I think the case is real, the more I uncover — that is, the more I benefit from Mahesh’s work — the more I am beginning to move to the other side of the fence.
I have once remarked that it should be required reading for every up and coming would-be theologian to read a book like Sam Harris’s ‘The End of Faith.’ Similarly, I think it would be good practice for every FIGU supporter to thoroughly read Mahesh’s new website. If the Meier case really is gold, it will survive the scrutiny.
…Cue the attacks and insults as to my mental masturbation and my deceptive, nefarious motives…
You have presented a premise without substantiation. Your statement, “As Mahesh demonstrated, in every example looked at, someone had already published the same thing.” is factually not true. But let’s look at this. We now have about 200 examples of specific information from Meier which, according to your statement, were all previously published by someone else, the implication being that Meier plagiarized them.
You’ve also said that, “Although as recently as last night I said I think the case is real, the more I uncover — that is, the more I benefit from Mahesh’s work — the more I am beginning to move to the other side of the fence.” So now since you have made these statements, let’s just ask you, “How, when and where did Meier manage to acquire all of this information…most of which of course wasn’t even available on the internet at the time that he published it?”
Now, realizing that neither Mahesh nor you have yet presented any answers to that, now’s the perfect time for you to do so. Just give us evidence showing what he actually…DID.
And please note that the first “he could’ve” gets you dismissed from the discussion.
I wouldn’t waste a lot of time addressing these types of critiques, although it is refreshing that you allow some healthy debate. Many people do not want the truth of this case to become main stream, for some obvious and not so obvious reasons. Many more of these attacks will be forthcoming, rest assured as the truth becomes more widely known. Humans can fight the truth if they so choose to through their own free will, but in the end it will drive them to an unhealthy place. No force exists that can fight the truth.
So the fact that someone else published info first is proof to you that Meier plagiarized the info, right? Is that really enough for you to dismiss the case as a hoax? You don’t think trying to see HOW Meier obtained the info to plagiarize is in order? To me, that would have to be the logical next step to proving a hoax. Otherwise, this entire investigation comes off as only trying to “deconstruct” Michael Horn’s reputation.
Are you serious Matthew, or trolling? I do not know how I can be any clearer.
You ask “So the fact that someone else published info first is proof to you that Meier plagiarized the info, right? Is that really enough for you to dismiss the case as a hoax?”
I have spent hours over the last few days trying to explain the answers to exactly those questions. Because I honestly, really don’t know how to be any clearer, I will cut and paste from my comments above:
“Actually, I never said Meier hoaxed [or plagiarized] anything. What I did say is that things which MH and others within FIGU have held out as examples of Meier’s foreknowledge, are no such thing…This is not knocking Meier, only certain claims about the informational evidence.
“Does all this mean I’m calling Meier a hoaxer [or plagiarizer]?– NO…HE STILL MAY BE IN CONTACT WITH ET’s, BUT THE PROOF OF THE AUTHENTICITY OF THE CASE IS SIMPLY NOT DEMONSTRATED BY THESE WRITINGS.”
IF I said Meier was a hoaxer (which I have been careful NOT to say, because indeed there is a ton of evidence in favor of authenticity) then how he was able to do everything certainly would be an interesting question.
You also say “Otherwise, this entire investigation comes off as only trying to “deconstruct” Michael Horn’s reputation.”
As Mahesh said somewhere, there is a difference between deconstructing someones argument, and deconstructing the person or his reputation. People typically do the former when they conduct honest debate — though I guess I shouldn’t expect you to understand that, because the norm around here is the latter. People needn’t get defensive in a discussion, and debate needn’t get personal in any way. But for some reason here at this blog — more than any other venue I have discussions in — this always seems to quickly happen. (Actually, this does happen in one other scenario — when discussing religion with religious people).
I have long liked MH, and only recently have had qualms with him in regards to his tone, and his refusal to acknowledge the facts uncovered by Mahesh and his fellows — i.e., that the informational evidence is far from ironclad.
Should MH continue to persist on these so-called corroborations, then he will perfectly well deconstruct his own reputation himself. Indeed, admitting mistakes shows strength of character; persistently knowingly misleading is another matter.
BTW – have you seen Mahesh’s findings on the Ice Man info, the Ozone layer info, the MUFON info?
No, we’re not going to indulge in another stupid circus such as Mahesh had going on FB, where there were something like 500 – 700 posts, if memory serves me correctly…and still he couldn’t form words like “yes” or “no” in terms of his position on the Meier case.
Further, this isn’t about deconstructing anyone or their arguments…which is yet another bit of mental masturbation by fools who trivialize the unimaginably huge, great and significant gift to humanity that is the totality of Billy Meier’s life and work.
So, thanks very much for your comments. A number of people have answered you, challenged you, etc., and you’re not the person to represent the “opposition”, since at best you just parrot a few things from Mahesh and then tell us that you’ve already answered, etc.
Forget about me and my arguments, forget about anyone’s arguments – since you’re completely and utterly, willingly incapable of thinking deductively – yo’ve state your position…sort of and I don’t think we’re gong to get anything else of actual substance from you. If you – or Mahesh or Simon – ever want to debate me in a live format we would give people a chance to hear the arguments, their content, rebuttals, etc.
But we, humanity, don’t have the luxury, even the need, for stupid mind games in a world where certainly Meier’s prophetic information is beginning to unfold and starting to spread like a wildfire…and we’re just beginning to sense what happens as the time fulfills, more and more.
I suppose that is you saying my mic is being turned off. Fair enough. I’ve said my peace. My final comment for the near future:
Lest anyone missed the obvious: In MH’s world, logic = mental masturbation, debate = series of personal insults, and honesty = a luxury he cannot afford.
I see you’re also accusing me of dishonesty, as you and the parasitical Mahesh also accuse Meier of.
Please present substantiation for that accusation immediately or yes, your mic is indeed turned off.
Sure. This page http://www.theyfly.com/newsflash91/5100_year_old_man.htm
titled “5,100 Year-Old Iceman Proves Meier UFO Contact Case True!” coupled with the actual truth about Meier’s Ice Man publications found here: http://ufoprophet.blogspot.in/2014/10/should-billy-meier-be-awarded-1000000_30.html#axzz3OpodSk6Y
How is it anything but plain dishonesty to keep your linked page up on the web, when Meier’s Ice Man publications, if anything, are actually suggestive of deception?
So you’re saying that Meier falsified his information.
P.S. And you’re saying that Meier actually put in INCORRECT information AFTER the discovery.
Is there really any comment necessary to show how illogical this is…if someone is trying to show that they’re publishing as yet unknown information?
Further, what you and Mahesh are plainly saying is that Meier lied but instead of having the guts, the courage to come right out and accuse him, you cowards want to accuse me of dishonesty for supporting Meier. And of course that’s because Mahesh fancies himself to be something other than an armchair expert who thinks he would like having a position like mine…where he’d have to be on the receiving end of cowardly attacks from others like him, all under the guise of being “investigators”.
For all the trash talk about my inability to think, the younger generations short attention spans, blah blah… it sure is difficult to get you to stay on topic.
So you will continue to leave the aforementioned site up, and thus continue to promote the Ice Man as a stellar confirmation of Meier’s foreknowledge when you now know that not to be true? I don’t have a problem with you promoting Meier, I have a problem with you persisting in a bold faced lie.
Just so the readers here know — because I doubt that most have even bothered to read Mahesh’s site, good believers that they are — what made the Ice Man thing a stunning corroboration was because Meier wrote of the arrow in the Ice Mans back, publishing this ALLEGEDLY before this was discovered by scientists… The small problem is that the arrow info is left out of the original contact report, and only later inserted into later copies, AFTER the arrow had been found.
To be clear, I am not simply nakedly accusing you of dishonesty — I just proved it. It’s all right there at Mahesh’s site. It’s “ironclad,” according to those “scientific and legal standards of proof” you like to talk about, but don’t understand.
You should take down that webpage. Hows that thing go about the wrecking ball that you used to say? And what is it you say about the covering up of mistakes?–it just compounds the problem. This unfolding embarrassment for you could have been easily avoided, had you simply corrected the mistake when you became aware of it, took down the webpage, etc. It wouldn’t have been a big deal. (Also, if you didn’t speak to others with such a disgusting level of civility, perhaps I wouldn’t have been prompted to promote your blatant dishonesty in such a public way).
And I am a coward because…? Because I won’t call Meier a hoaxer when I am not sure that he is? I think that’s called prudence.
First, I think it’s ironic almost beyond comprehension that Mahesh and company are trying to rely on the DEDUCTIVE REASONING of people 5,100 years after the fact to indict Meier as a liar, and of course me too because I support Meier’s authenticity. Of course it’s very important that the best scientific, forensic examinations, research and conclusions be offered. But the problem is that the conclusion that Mahesh is trying to draw, elaborately, is – even in the very words that he and the scientists use…THEORETICAL.
Here are some of them: “The leading scientific theory” “deep wounds…suggesting” “holding a dagger…suggesting” “This new medical evidence suggests” and we also read “Basically we see a major head trauma…” “”But some other scientists seems to maintain that it’s not conclusive whether Ötzi’s brain injury was caused by being bashed over the head or by falling after being struck with the arrow.”
The point is of course that not only can firm conclusions NOT be made but that we even have this topic at all! Because what we’re discussing here are the fine points of information that – LOGICALLY SPEAKING – one Mr. Billy Meier would have no reason to have published in the first place.
So determined, however, to indict Meier (and me for supporting him) are the skeptics here that they are hungrily trying to DISPROVE something that is still open to interpretation, as even some of the experts disagree and are having to rely on their own THEORIES of what could’ve and should’ve happened…5,100 years ago.
But ask these ambitious, self-important, know-it-all, armchair expert skeptics to apply DEDUCTIVE REASONING to the Meier case and its KNOWN circumstances, evidence, information, etc., and they completely avoid – as well as RIDICULE – it. After all, the scientific information and arguments, however correct or incorrect, are indeed employing – here it comes – MEANS, MOTIVE AND OPPORTUNITY in trying to reconstruct the events of thousands of years ago.
Now, since they have gone to all this trouble to try to disprove the essential matter – Meier’s truthfulness and the authenticity of his contacts with the Plejaren – perhaps they will apply their brilliance to doing what has been REPEATEDLY asked of them…and it won’t require them to go back over 5,000 years to do it:
Explain the MMO behind, explain HOW Meier acquired all of his information that I’ve referred to as “prophetically accurate”. After all, we’re really only talking about a time span of roughly 64 years, hardly anything at all. And, fortunately, you have some of the methodology laid out for you in the Ice Man investigation…SPECULATIVE as the conclusions are and must be. It should, therefore, be a heck of a lot easier for you to prove your accusations against Meier, since the events are hugely more recent.
RIght?
Andy, I can see why it might seem glorious to do what you’re doing – so you could say you took down Billy’s legacy and say you unraveled the great puzzle that no other debunker or skeptic could do… to finally find a loose strand that would unravel it all.
Maybe you just want glory of being the one who finally took Billy down, but I think that you are just curious and like to deconstruct everything to see its moving parts … am I right? So you want to try to find that thread so it will all unravel like yarn – wouldn’t that be interesting, to see it all come apart? Well I can’t fault you there – I like to unravel things too, and see how they all fit together. I’m 24 years old, but can’t say I am able to always deny myself a simple child’s glee at pressing buttons or breaking something somebody else worked hard to put together.
But I just hope you can recognise that if you finally tug at the right thread, and you pull it all apart, well … I can’t say for certain, but you might end up getting applause. Only you might just get dark applause and no fanfare at all from the good guys, like you seem to hope for.
Hi Cody,
If one seeks to find the truth, rather than pursues an agenda, pro or con, then the truth will prevail.
Andy got all excited about championing Mahesh’s so-called “conclusive” debunking of Meier’s Ice Man information. But it’s now easily shown that it’s anything but that. Maybe now though they will start to answer the questions long put to them, which you are of course echoing in challenging Andy (and Mahesh) to clarify his own motives, methods and intentions.
Well frankly no, I don’t push him to state his position, and I never said that. And I am completely lost in your guys’ … well, I don’t even have the words anymore, and cannot even see what is in front of me anymore. I just can’t … it’s all too much .. mind-boggling.
So you’re skeptical – at least you don’t got a brain slug on your head 😉
You wanna knock on wood and see what’s the other side before you open it. Totally get it.
So what’s the plan boss? Mahesh’s web site? Cool. So we’re gonna sit and scritch our little monkey beards? I only got like 5 mm of chin scruff, but it’s enough to call myself a proper theologian, I bet. We can be monkey-theologians together! 😉
Do I win if my lightbulb goes off before yours? We are gonna need a lot of bananas if we’re gonna deduce this mystery from a computer screen! You still like bananas from the time our ancestors were scritching at themselves and picking ticks off their butts, right? 🙂
Unless ape ancestors aren’t your thing, in which case bring some Jesus wine. We’d need to recharge our batteries if we’re gonna crack this case, and as far as my knowledge goes, nothing sharpens the mind like crackers and wine – but make mine sweet strawberry. Jesus would understand, and the juice from those little cups doesn’t do the trick for me.
I mean what’s going on here
The supposed Meier supporters are now all of a sudden its most vociferous critics!?
Gees are the GI’s lingering telenotic electromagnetic impulses still at work under the Giza pyramids or something
I thought you guys have worked out the most basics by now.
Did you wake up on the wrong side of the Bed.
For F sake
Well I guess Dyson did take some issue with your choice of words Michael according my memory so did Mahesh and others take the wrong cue from that?
I started today with a cup of coffee which actually took some time to make even with modern conveniences and it took me a good portion of 5 blissful minutes to suck on a cigarette and another few minutes to wash my hands so I am actually getting a little irritated now by those who should know better but who are unwilling to use logic by sort of accusing Meier of foul play with their infantile insistence and obssession with scientific criteria this and scientific standards that when all they have to do is write on a piece of paper or even just record their own activities for 24hrs on their smartphone to see how much of whatever they do they can actually get done in that time and then juxtapose them with what Billy has managed to do and it wouldn’t matter if they decide to throw out every CR as being a work of fiction since I think they’ve already made their minds anyway but nonetheless they do have physical tangible and written form of work easily available to go by and to ask themselves ‘how long would this have taken Billy to fabricate, write, rip off, take, manipulate, concoct, weave, make, create and so on’.
Exactly.
Michael obviously mistranslations have been an issue on many occasions not to mention printing errors.
Just out of curiosity are the publication and copyright dates for the original German contact notes all correct?
What about the Bulletins, special bulletins, booklets, books, articles, pamphlets, ST, etcetc?
Do we have available through witness testimony or physical evidence the date that Billy typed the CN and then made it available to his core group or even outsiders before official publication?
What people should also consider in this equation is that getting anything officially published in hardcopy takes time and lots of money.
Money Billy sorely lacked in the heydays of his contacts.
I mean my neighbour back in OZ was an author who was in the process of getting her first book published and gee from what she had explained to me about the intricate and quite time consuming process she had to go through she said it was not months but years in the making even though she had already written manuscripts for at least 7 odd books waiting to be published.
This thing keeps dragging on and on but I gather that certain things must be resolved as a necessary step for the next step.
To the best of my knowledge, the dates and times that Meier put for all the transcripts, etc., are correct.
But we mustn’t lose sight of a few things here. Those of us who already long have concluded that the case is authentic continue to study it. When something like the Ice Man issue surfaces and is made into such a big deal by people who on the one hand know nothing about actual investigation and deductive reasoning, and on the other hand try to discredit the case based on theories using those methods – some 5,100 years after the fact – it’s all too easy to get lost in the endless run around.
However, I think the response I gave to Andy throws serious doubt on how such speculation in any way actually discredits the amazing facts, beginning with the how and why Meier even published the information in the first place.
And even more to the point, those who are now trying to discredit Meier and my support for him haven’t answered any of the basic questions themselves. Unless it can be shown to be otherwise, largely based on their own complete lack of understanding of how such things work and worked in the past, as also exemplified by what your neighbor told you, they have consumed an enormous amount of space, time and energy in a rather futile endeavor.
However, if what ultimately comes out of it is the realization of how all of this convoluted, twisted thinking not only failed to reveal any hoax but in itself demonstrated the authenticity of the case – due to the improbability, or impossibility, of Meier having been the one-handed, mega-magician that one would have had to have been to do it all – then maybe it will be viewed as beneficial and conclusive in resolving any remaining doubts.
Mike,
Let’s not also forget that time and time again folks here ARE willing to listen and learn if they have things thing called actual proof of a fraud. After all, some of these folks are so smart that they don’t address this concern even when clearly some folks here post that on their blogs or facebook pages saying they would listen to it. ‘Not one iota’ as one infamous individual here would used to say that I will substitute here for those folks that think they’re smarter, or had thought they were smart but aren’t anymore, thinking is that all you need to do is play iwth eth neglish.
The only thing they are proving is that Meier has more sense and a grasp of the times to correctly cite things in scientific realm of knowledge than they do. Knowledge hitting their mind they cannot ignore? Are they catching a head ache and need Aspirin? I can see Billy dropping knowledge as Earth Humanity be dropping babies. I guess that’s enough to make some folks crazy.
Any way, let’s hope the HP aren’t in Earth Humanity’s face to the point like being spayed by a can of mace. Is it burning yet? Now are we learning?
I’m sorry Andy, but, what sort of work are YOU doing here or looking to do here? You want folks to prove to you handing everything on a silver platter or do you seek your own proof? After all, the amount of real investigative report in follow up on leads is not done by spoon feeding but real research work that costs money, time, and a good amount of sleuthing around like it was back in the day before the internet. Sitting on the internet chair and demanding is an interesting way to do things but you can only go so much other than disagreeing with folks on the internet. And, if you disagree enough does not automatically translate into “fradulent” because you logically arranged an argument as thus.
Please do the needful with your own research.
Yeah agreed
Irrationality knows no bounds even for those that should know better.
As for me instead of wasting time trying to dismantle an argument for the sake of proving how smart I am thereby shine before others which is not so smart at all I rather focus on helping the mission by first having good intentions to want to help out if and when I can.
This also involves not wasting time on trifles and much-ado-about-nothings nor to cave into worldly temptations to profit financially by becoming a critic on someone else’s behalf.
For anyone who has been studying the Meier case for some time to then suddenly do a 360 degree turn based on flimsy element of the physical evidence is suggestive of someone who deep down did not get the message nor have understood it properly but carried their doubts all along.
Those who haven’t genuinely gotten the spiritual teachings will always eventually end up a truant.
Duke,
I don’t want anything on a silver platter, and I don’t know what makes you say that (although Mahesh/Simon has offered a nice silver platter, which you — good believer and parrot that you are — apparently refuse to even look at).
I simply thought that if MH was an honest person he would take down his webpage on the Ice Man, since Meier didnt publish anything about the mummy before it was discovered. In fact THERE IS ‘one iota’ indication of a hoax. Not only did he not actually publish anything about the Ice Man before discovery — he actually inserted information into later printings of the CR, like the arrow part, after the arrow discovery…presumably to give the appearance that he actually predicted something. This stunning “corroboration” is such utter BS it’s mind-boggling that MH would continue to support it.
He continues to ignore the point I make, and discuss the less definitive parts of Mahesh’s page. Because all MH does is deflect and mud-sling, and because the contributors here are so dense that they are swayed by it, as an illustration,here is how the conversation could have hypothetically went had MH not proceeded so evasively and deceptively:
Me: What makes a “corroboration” of the Meier case is when he actually publishes information before it is known, right?
MH: Of course.
Me: Ok, well, because we now know Meier did not publish anything about the Ice Man before it was known, why do you continue to promote it as a corroboration?
MH: Good point, I will take down that webpage. Thanks.
There is NOTHING “speculative” about the core issue of the Ice Man debunking as MH suggests. Mahesh got the original copy, and the arrow part — the part that would have made it a corroboration — was missing. Nothing speculative there. MH’s response, his blatant misdirection, sheds absolutely no doubt on this core issue. The Ice Man is completely debunked — Meier only published info on the mummy after it was made publicly available. End ‘o story
…Except…that’s not quite the end of story…becuase it actually gets worse than that, because of the back-dating I mentioned above. So there is “one iota” of evidence of hoax for you, Duke. In fact there are a handful of other iotas… the Bromine/Ozone layer info, the MUFON info, the outer space pictures…
Have you even read Mahesh’s work??? The time of giving Meier the benefit of the doubt is over, as there have been found several instances of back dating, and NOT ONE instance of true prior publication.
How is it not fraudulent for MH to still promote the Ice Man as a corroboration, Duke? It is in fact the definition of fraudulent. When one google’s “fraud,” this is what they find:
“Fruad – a person or thing intended to deceive others, typically by unjustifiably claiming or being credited with accomplishments or qualities.”
Because he obviously now knows that Meier did not prior publish on the Ice Man, a case could be made that he even meets the legal definition of Fraud:
“Fraud must be proved by showing that the defendant’s actions involved five separate elements: (1) a false statement of a material fact,(2) knowledge on the part of the defendant that the statement is untrue, (3) intent on the part of the defendant to deceive the alleged victim, (4) justifiable reliance by the alleged victim on the statement, and (5) injury to the alleged victim as a result.”
So here we have it no uncertain terms, Mahesh, Simon and Andy have finally revealed that there position is that Meier did backdate his information, that, “Meier didnt publish anything about the mummy before it was discovered. In fact THERE IS ‘one iota’ indication of a hoax. Not only did he not actually publish anything about the Ice Man before discovery — he actually inserted information into later printings of the CR, like the arrow part, after the arrow discovery…presumably to give the appearance that he actually predicted something.” and “it actually gets worse than that, because of the back-dating I mentioned above. So there is “one iota” of evidence of hoax for you, Duke. In fact there are a handful of other iotas… the Bromine/Ozone layer info, the MUFON info, the outer space pictures…”
And of course it’s “fraudulent” of me to ” still promote the Ice Man as a corroboration”.
So they have now made it clear, they think the case is a hoax.
My, my.
Nope. First of all, Mahesh, Simon, and Andy are not one person. Second, I never said I thought the case is a hoax. All I am suggesting is that the Ice Man info — and a small handful of other things that Simon and Mahesh have found — seem to point in that direction.
The case is much too big, much too evidence rich, for me to make any call one away or the other right now. What Simon/Mahesh’s work has shown is that it is not nearly so cut and dry as many are supposing here. That’s all.
But you got one thing right:
“And of course it’s “fraudulent” of me to ” still promote the Ice Man as a corroboration.””
You have stated that, “Not only did he not actually publish anything about the Ice Man before discovery — he actually inserted information into later printings of the CR, like the arrow part, after the arrow discovery…presumably to give the appearance that he actually predicted something.” The date on the transcript is several months before the discovery, so you’re inaccurate there. At the very least he published the discovery of the Ice Man before it happened. So the question remains if the arrow info was added later AND if it was or wasn’t known/given to Meier when he stated that it was.
I will state that my experience, and the results of my research, confirm that Meier is honest and doesn’t and hasn’t falsified anything. You are stating unequivocally that he does and did. But you of course haven’t proved it.
And now you are saying that the Ice Man info makes it seems like it’s pointing in the direction of a hoax.
I absolutely oppose that conclusion. It’s as simple as that.
MH, can you please take down my comment made at 8:32pm please? I just am not certain what I said is true and am afraid it could do more harm than good.
Done.
Do the Blue skin people who live underground have any say to world affairs or are they the secret society that Dyson is talking about?
One step forward, two steps back. One step back, two steps forward. The ‘human’ experience here on earth is something of immense frustration at sometimes. The will to aspire to something more is always deeply within us, somewhere. What a task set out in front of us all…..
Most of the world is comfortable just doing demonstrations and talking about problems rather than enacting solutions that have real results for the better … if they all would just step back from religion for a moment , see it for what it is , work together in all things and not haggle over which name , which rule , and who’s in charge of it , things just might turn for the better instead of always reacting to the worst …
There is still the Microsoft syndrome to religion
Daved those bunkers I mentioned in Kansas are unergrown so they can`t get nuked but the rest of us poor human will get nuked. Think about that! I think we should tell Billy and the Ps about that less we ALL burn up in hell soon!
IMO there is a fair bit of unsubstabtiated opinion and speculation at Global Research, though they admit to a little as speculation. Even if BBB (Big Builderberg Bosses) do support or try to control ISIL they are not controlling the Islamic demographics and growing hundreds of thousands who are for a medieval like takeover of the world and death to those who disagree. Hiring extremists with their own agendas to do ones dirty work usually ends up more trouble than it is worth. Some say Hitler was a past example of that. The wannabe controllers end up with a bigger problem than the one they planned to solve. I also wouldn’t be surprised to see someone or some outfit in the future try to, or actually take out, the BBB once social mayhem takes hold. I doubt that even if that happened it would put an end to the problem of an amassed army of ideological extremists going after THEIR goal.
Greg, I seem to recall that Hitler was brainwashed by the Baffa so what is now left over is what those stupid Builderburg are TRYING to do as amatter of fact I also think these money making corperations and politicians are doing are what`s left over from the influences by the Baffa if you read from what the P`s told Billy in one of the contact rep orts which also includes religions too, That is why this world is in so much trouble now and getting worse.
Here was my comment on that blog: (sorry if some of the numbers are off)
I too agree that the odds are overwhelming. If you take scientists’ estimates of 400 billion solar systems in our galaxy x 400,000 other galaxies, you get a huge number. Here is the animated video of those actual galaxies: http://youtu.be/rOjrImaPh80 I get teary-eyed every time I watch it.
But you left out the largest E.T. contact case in the world. How can you have so many resources and leave out Billy Meier? How can you ignore 1450 photos, 23 films, 120 witnesses, 22 assassination attempts, over 100 predictions coming true, 600 word for word conversations in the contact reports, metal samples, fingerprints, 40 books which all make perfect logical sense.. I mean, he alone has more evidence than all the other cases in the world put together. How can you ignore that?
Well Greg they just did
We won’t get into the whys for the obvious reasons.
Ifs is another matter entirely