Sedona MUFON opens its doors – and minds – to the Billy Meier case!
For a very long time MUFON, the international UFO research organization, has variously attacked, ignored, or tried to marginalize the Billy Meier UFO case, which is ironic since it’s the only scientifically proven, still ongoing contact case.
It was only recently that the new director of MUFON, Jan Harzan, agreed to have the case listed on the MUFON site as an actual, historical case. Unfortunately – and I think because of intense pressure from very vested interests within the MUFON hierarchy – he and MUFON didn’t take the one necessary step of actually examining the evidence in the case, since it would be a deal ender for MUFON. Where would they go from there once they announced that the Meier case was…authentic?
The problem is of course even larger than that. Finding what they – and everyone who claims to be interested in UFOs, extraterrestrials, etc. – have been looking for means that the greatest true story in all of human history is indeed occurring here on Earth; there are intelligent extraterrestrial human beings and they’ve been in contact with one Earthman for over 73 years. And with that realization and confirmation…the entire UFO industry grinds to a very well deserved halt. The disinformation no longer grabs anyone’s attention. The Grays, Reptilians and Dracos, and all other imaginary “aliens” etc., go back to their properly dismissed status as the products of over active imaginations and deliberate deception created by suicidal, control and profit-oriented fellow humans.
All that being said, I can now joyfully tell you that Sedona Mufon was kind enough to host a nearly two-hour presentation of mine on the Meier case on February 20. In introducing my presentation, Becky Solon, a MUFON State Section Director for Arizona, held up her own copy of one of the original photo books from Genesis III.
Having a large screen on which to show Meier’s stunningly clear, daytime UFO photos, some that he took within 20’ feet of the craft and the recent independent analyses, etc., certainly opened many people’s eyes A good number of the MUFON members got not only the singular authenticity of the Meier case, they now grasped that its very central reason was indeed the spiritual teaching, based as it is in our taking complete self-responsibility for our lives and our world, for assuring our own future survival…and not waiting, hoping or fearing that extraterrestrials are coming to save or annihilate us.
Of course I would be quite glad to present this eye-opening documentation to other MUFON groups. And help them leave behind the dead-end pursuit of…lights-in-the-sky.
Phil Pholds, Phails to Show
Several months ago I was interviewed by William Piper, who then told me that Phil Langdon wanted to debate me on a show that William would host. Of course I agreed and about a month ago there was more discussion about setting the exact date. I agreed to February 21, one of the suggested options. Well, Phil pholded and phailed to agree to the debate.
So despite all sorts of rhetoric that he’s spewed across the internet, youtube, etc., apparently being confronted with the inescapable evidence of his inability to duplicate the actual details of the WCUFO (as well as the Pendulum UFO film) caused Phil to, well, put a…lid on it and wisely retreat.
Andy
February 27, 2015 at 3:03 am
” That Meier backdated is NOT “unsubstantiated.” It’s fully substantiated. Which, as Mahesh points out, makes one realize:”
———————————————————————-
Sorry! Left out your arrow of conclusive-indictment.
Ok, I see the confusion. Even though I have underscored this countless times here, once more for ya, in Mahesh’s words:
“So logically speaking, one can only state that first, the information Meier published combined with the publication dates doesn’t in any way prove Meier’s foreknowledge and second it even supports the null hypothesis, which is that Meier’s information regarding the ice man was based on terrestrial scientific information. But that doesn’t definitively PROVE that Meier falsified information.”
Reread the last sentence please. There was “backdating” — the question is whether this occured for the purposes of consciously deceiving. I don’t know if that was the case or not. But the fact that “arrow” was not in the first two or three printings of the CR, but only in later printings AFTER the arrow was found…looks fishy. It doesn’t prove hoax, but this along with other similar examples raises red flags. For the last time — I am not calling Meier a liar, but nor is the case sufficiently proven in my mind.
And of course it wouldn’t be a big deal really at all if there truly was 100+ “ironclad” corroborations as MH continues to claim… but I haven’t even seen a SINGLE ONE such ironclad corroboration.
So are you still claiming that Meier backdated the entire contact with all of the information about the Ice Man discovery?
Wow. What is your problem? No, not the “entire contact”, only the arrow part (which, as it turns out, is the only part that would have made for a good corroboration, because the arrow was not yet found when Meier first disseminated on the Ice Man).
This is beyond frustrating. How many freakin times do I have to explain. I give up. There is no point in discussing a matter with someone who continues to deny or play ignorant of the basic facts of the matter.
But again, although the Ice Man came up embarrassingly short, if you have any true, verifiably prior-published corroborations, I’m all ears.
“No, not the ‘entire contact’…” so you’re then admitting that Meier published the information on the Ice Man…with the exception of the arrow part.
And in so doing, why aren’t you dumbstruck that he would have in fact published that information about a discovery that hadn’t yet been made? Honestly, it doesn’t take any “insulting words” to point out that you simply neither know what you’re talking about nor what you’re doing, nor how to think. It’s truly staggering. Hey wait, do you by any chance go to…ASU?
I ABSOLUTELY Concur Dear Horn , besides the fact of “ALL” the other 100s of corroborated facts and figures !! are these also “backdated?? These 2 unabridged wingnuts are the epitome of their own ego’s and ill-information that they fail to grasp of the Meier case and all that we collectively stand for .
Good on “US” all for tempting the Michael Horn mindset , adding and subtracting the 2 cents everyone adds to make this accomplishment of Theyfly,com possible !
Yes, Wayne, and the corroborations continue to occur. So it does seem rather foolish and short-sighted that at least the lawyer-in-training hasn’t stopped to think, “Hmmm, there sure are a lot of ironclad examples with more occurring every day. Now just what would the motivation be for Meier to go back, after the fact, create first a false Contact 238, then not mention anything in Contact 239 after the original discovery is made, and then…etc.”
This is really part of the problem with the “children of the digital age” who truly don’t think and who, lacking ANY understanding, ANY first and experience with the man, the environment, the realities of the situation, etc., concoct their small-minded determinations that someone is hoaxing something because everything in real life “should” just be as neat and easy as pushing a key on their computer.
I still think it would be refreshing for those that had passed that fact successfully, if they then started examining new things, such as the social system, evolution, history as examples, even making new websites ‘about’ that, would be a refreshment.
But you do very well getting people through the door MH, your very good at what you do, and in the way you handle people, and with your links to all these different organisations around the world, someone has to be in the position that your in, a meet and greet type role, awareness role, you do that very well.
Your putting on an incredibly professional orientation programme.
I have seen ZERO ironclad examples. That is, I have not seen even one instance of Meier verifiably publishing anything specific before it was known. You keep talking about these “100’s” of examples. GIVE ME JUST ONE. (By the way, I wouldn’t go with Apohphis… that one ain’t so good it turns out).
It is not a corroboration if it was already known somewhere on earth. It may be evidence of a sort, that Meier would write so much on so many things… but it is not even close to ironclad proof of ET contact if he is writing things that in every case are already known.
Give me just one example out of the 100+.
What! No internet connection for Michael
I guess you won’t be reading this post of mine anytime soon.
Oh my mistake the internet is back online in Flagstaff
http://rt.com/usa/235927-arizona-internet-outage-vandals/
It was interesting to see how people were reacting to being…offline. Didn’t last too long but did give me the opportunity to talk with people who weren’t…texting at the same time.
Ah oh
You are giving me ideas Michael
Now where did I leave my 9 inch grinder and a shovel
It probably went down due to the white and gold or blue and black dress.
Oh these transvestite cross dressing Iiamas running amok over in Arizona in their colour changing dresses. Tse tse…
Andy,
Andy,
It’s not that hard to understand. Do you really think that out of over 25,000 pages of information, something couldn’t have inadvertently been left out? Do you know that even the Plejaren make mistakes? After all, they are human just like us. Come on Andy, I know you must have, at some time in your life, written a report, an email, a letter or a web post that had errors in it or something left out? Or are you claiming perfection and that’s why you don’t allow Meier to make mistakes or errors? Come on! Let’s use a little logic and common sense here. The material in all its volumes speaks for itself. If that one little piece of information was later added through some type of deceit, wouldn’t that would make the whole thing void? I can’t take your reasoning serious because, through logical thinking, I know there is no way all that material was a lie or backdated. The scientific and cosmic information alone is far beyond what any of us would know. I would love to see you attempt to do what Meier has done over the last 70+ years. Until you can replicate ALL of his evidence and material, I’m done with your nonsense.
Very well stated Melissa and I agreed. Years ago cases used to be thrown out of court simply for a spelling error in the name of the person charged. It didn’t mean he/she wasn’t guilty, it only meant that the arresting officer spelled the name wrong. Apparently Andy is using the same tactic.
Nice one..:)
I’m basically with you on that Melissa. And my calculations/prediction of the case 9 yeasr before I discovered it also helps enormously in asserting against what they are trying to do. I told them they can do that without the need of any internet (since that is exactly what I did by 2001). They can do it by themselves using basic fundamental logic. Irrefutable facts that everyone can agree on. I wasn’t that smart so I decided to stick to simplicity.
All one has to do , is look at his predictions , then look when science announced their discovery , and you will see , Edward beat them to the punch every time .. If he is correct about the future , he is correct about the past , and the teachings have enormous implications .. Science proves the case every day .. they just don’t like egg on their faces ..
“All one has to do , is look at his predictions , then look when science announced their discovery , and you will see , Edward beat them to the punch every time .”
The truth is exactly the opposite. Please do share ANY example you have to the contrary.
I think MH handles everything very well, well done MH, its an honour for me. When some people realise that the last 12 thousand years of history and the following 2 thousand years of history atleast has all be arranged and there are things that we know now, specific things like the length of our lives, and the abnormality of the situation on earth that we have nothing to compare it to, at this particular time, yet are able for some odd reason to produce some form of cognition out of that, even though 120 years ago we were moving around on horse and carts at the end of the day, and here we are now talking about UFO’s as if thats normal. Again, I think you handle people very well MH, its a really brave thing that you’ve been able to do at the end of the day, tolerate going through all of the information, but have remained steady, calm, rational. When they realise that its only the Plejaren and a couple of specific encounters of UFOs and that its linked into historical religious episodes, then it all gets very dicey. Well done MH, your a strong man.
Thank you, DZ.
“Based on the kind of attacks that Mahesh is making it’s beyond cowardly for him to not be open about his own position. He could say a number of things, including that he thinks that the case is either true or false, that my own conclusions do or don’t affect his position, etc., etc.”
Hi MH,
Well, if Mahesh thinks the case is a hoax, the question must be asked, what’s he doing spending lots of his time on something he thinks is a hoax? Surely he must have better things to do with his time unless he is doing it for some sort of attention. Some hidden agenda?
Sometimes people are complex. My guess is that he knows it’s real but also has conflicts about it…as well as ambition to profit, to be somehow “important”. Beyond that I neither know nor really care.
Good question Dennis
Imagine the amount of time out his waking hours he would’ve spent transfixed with a tunnel vision like bias trying desperately to find holes in the Meier case just to prove to others as well as himself of the negatives to confirm how right his preconceived bias was.
And to have the gall to state that his website isn’t pro or con and expect people to be dumb enough to swallow this rubbish of a lie!?!?!?.
Why if he was true to his mission statement did he not also not go the other way and find the plethora of evidence where Billy did get things right!?!?!?
He has turned drastically and this can only point to someone who after fortuitously having contacted the critics of Meier may have been offered financial enticements to go against it using a clever cover which btw has netted him valuable Meier materials he would otherwise have not gotten a hold of.
Mahesh should just drop the word pro out of his mission statement and have the word CON in bold letter and do away with his pretenses altogether as its getting sickening by the day.
In the end, it has nothing to do with “UFO’s.” There’s no such thing as “UFO’s.” We know what the hell they are, this is absolutely a waste of energy to pretend we don’t know. What a joke. Some know EXACTLY what they are, so what. We’re missing the bigger picture here. We talk and talk because that’s what we do and that’s ok too. But what we must understand is that change starts with the young and the innocent. This is where we neglect our duties here. It’s easy to say what is just and what is not after it has occurred, but when it is time to start anew in a right and just way, we are no where to be found. It is always after the fact. How do the innocent bear ANY responsibilty for anything when they first come in at the 28th day? They bear none, that is the answer. They are thrown into a lion’s den of rapists, murderers, and psychopaths, left to their own devices to slave out an existence here. We must begin here and only here or we have missed everything the teachings have provided. I would humbly suggest a seperate section on the blog here that covers strictly the spiritual teachings. I’m aware that FIGU has this already, but I fear many perspectives there lack the honest and innocent feeling that is needed. Too often we read and think we know, all the while we do not. Maybe a seperate area here may provide a venue where we can come together and share things outside the FIGU area. Often times, Humans believe themselves to be more knowing than they are in those forums and maybe here we can begin anew. I mean no disrespect, I only wish to delve into the other things that will help us all deal with all the topics we are trying to change here is all.
None of you are to value suffering. This is only a transient phenomena that we use as a learning tool. There is no intrinsic value in it other than that. The religions and dogma teach otherwise. They so love their precious suffering. Many will get exactly what they want in the end.
I saw a video today showing how ISIS is destroying statues and sculptures thousands of years old, destroying history from Mesopotamia
http://webtv.radikal.com.tr/turkiye/13152/isid-musulda-binlerce-yillik-antik-heykelleri-yikti.aspx
Has this not been stated somewhere, that part of our history would be destroyed in a way like this?
I looked for it but could not find it
Andy, Andy, Andy
The fact remains that the artist Rick Guidice who supposedly painted the universal barrier picture which Mahesh is claiming is the source of Billy’s photo is on Mahesh’s record as saying his painting had “no date and he cannot find anything that pinpoints the date created”. So he obviously doesn’t remember when it was painted. Then Rick Guidice goes on to quote a response from NASA which claims that an unknown NASA archivist claims to remember Rick’s pictures being photographed while still wet. Then Rick can’t even agree with it because he is only “quoting” the response from NASA but neither agrees or denies it. He doesn’t say anything about the archivist like for example that he even remembers him/her or even something along the lines of his/her memory is better than mine. Nothing. He just quotes an email from NASA which just screams to me “look I’m towing the NASA line”.
I find it odd how Mahesh starts out in his letter to NASA stating that the painting was from 1975. That doesn’t sound like a person looking for the truth, just a person wanting the painting to be from 1975.
How do we even know that Mahesh has posted the total correspondence with NASA? So many parts of the emails obviously missing doesn’t sound like a real investigation. I would like to see the missing parts of the emails to make sure that Mahesh is really posting what he found instead of posting what he wanted. In light of how Mahesh has taken a walk on the dark side and what a crappy investigator he is, it looks like he only investigated until he found the answer he wanted. Regardless of that, the painter himself stated that there was “no date and he cannot find anything that pinpoints the date created”.
In summary Mahesh takes the unknown NASA archivist’s word as truth. Does anyone find this funny? I sure do. Mahesh is willing to take one unknown person’s word as truth and is quite willing to disregard everyone else who has ever come forward and stated their name and passed a lie detector test. Mahesh has a lot to learn about investigation if you ask me.
Am I missing something? Yes I am, Andy can you tell me why and how you think Mahesh nailed this one because it’s so obvious to me that he didn’t.
P.S. I mentioned that there was communication between Chris Lock and Mahesh. While there may be more, here is what I have below. I think it’s made very clear by Chris that Mahesh – who appears to be Andy’s guru here – is an amateurish, sloppy “investigator” who freely distorts what other people have said. It does seem like he subscribes to the school of thought that many attention seekers do, “Speak me well or speak of me ill, just…speak of me”.
Here is some correspondence between Chris Lock, Prof. Zahi and Mahesh on Feb. 11:
Again personal insults, strawman arguments & diversionary tactics by Michael Horn.
Regarding Chris Lock’ comment:
First, our analysis on Meier’s supposedly “genuine” Universal Barrier picture does not depend upon the TV-theory at all.
Secondly, when asked about this cathode ray 3-color grid issue, Chris Lock in a personal email to me on Nov 19, 2011 (see below) acknowledged that Meier’s Asket-Nera photos in theory could be manufactured from the frames of Dean Martin show from TV using dark room equipment (assuming it is needed in the first place); and at the same time he also pointed out that Meier has no dark room equipment.
Since he is the only professional photographer I interacted with, I cannot simply take his word as truth. He never published any extensive analysis validating all theories nor were his arguments reviewed by other professional photographic experts. Nobody in their right mind, would base their conclusions on a single “Expert” or for that matter an “Expert” who uncritically accepts everything Meier says as truth.
He is also making the same argument here again with Universal Barrier photo that – it could be faked but since Meier has no dark room equipment (assuming it is needed in the first place), he couldn’t have faked and therefore it must be MIB. These are the kind of “Experts” that MH is using for his propaganda.
Regards
Mahesh Karumudi
………………………………………
Dear Mahesh,
It is not necessary to take anyone’s word as truth. The person is pretty much irrelevant; it is the message that counts. Does what is said stand up to scrutiny? Does it make sense? Is it factually, experimentally and demonstrably accurate?
I have not given, as far as I recall, “arguments” or “theories” regarding the Grand Journey photos, merely some comments.
“Nobody in their right mind, would base their conclusions on a single “Expert”…” Why not? It all depends on whether that expert is right or not. Accuracy is not guaranteed by numbers. Aren’t most truths and new knowledge developed from a single expert? Sometimes it’s a team, but usually the world moves forward from the work of solitary individuals. If you really believe what you stated there why would you, or anyone, try to convince anyone of anything? What litany of experts do have you lined up to back your unsubstantiated claims? It isn’t necessary. It is only required that conclusions be demonstrably and completely accurate.
“…or for that matter an “Expert” who uncritically accepts everything Meier says as truth.” If this is a comment at me I have to inform you that you are completely mistaken. I do not “uncritically accept” anything that Meier says as truth, let alone everything. Why would you make such a claim on someone you know so very little about? I am keenly interested in the Meier material for what it contains, implies, and the innumerable challenges it presents. As you know I have co-authored a paper with Zahi that proves beyond any reasonable doubt that strange Energy Ships appeared over Meier’s property, and Zahi has at least proven that craft of approximately 3.5 meters were also over Meier’s property. This has been demonstrably and experimentally proven.
That means that there are very likely to be more truths and facts in the Meier material, and so it just has to be given a free and proper hearing. Even if someone is faking something it can be most helpful to employ Socratic irony (not that that is necessarily what I am or am not doing with the Meier material), but one has to be very willing to listen, and ask questions by way of seeking explanation. This doesn’t imply the questioner is necessarily a believer in the answers given. Given enough time and space to talk people eventually reveal whether they are telling the truth or not. Coming straight out with loud superficial accusations is one of the worst ways to investigate whether someone is telling the truth or not, which is why it seldom happens in the courtroom. To set the record straight on where I stand (something everyone notes you have refused to do), other than what Zahi and I have proven, there are things within the Meier material that I consider after many years of thought and reflection — not uncritically accept — very likely to be true, things likely to be true, things that I am not sure about, and other things that I doubt.
“He is also making the same argument here again with Universal Barrier photo that – it could be faked but since Meier has no dark room equipment (assuming it is needed in the first place), he couldn’t have faked and therefore it must be MIB.”
IMO for Meier’s photo to be derived from that painting the use of a darkroom would be necessary. Don’t take my word for it, ask other experienced photographers who know about copying photographs and using darkroom equipment.
You have clearly misinterpreted and misquoted what was written, as can be plainly seen below. Why should all the 170 odd people you have sent this to have to waste their time filtering through all the careless inaccuracy you are dealing them? If you are going to mass mail you should at least be sure to have your facts right. I did not say “it must be MIB”, that is what you have just said and completely misquoted me as saying. You can read what I said and meant right below, i.e.: it “makes me wonder whether Schmitt was involved again with this one[,] unknown to the P.” “Makes me wonder whether” does not mean “therefore it must be”. You actually IMO brought up a very interesting question, but you destroyed it by unsubstantiated accusations which assumed you already knew the answer, when you had only weak superficial “evidence”. It is just this sort of continual mistaken citing, concluding and opinion making that makes all attempts at communicating accurate facts to you such an arduous if not inpenetrable jungle to hack through.
Having corrected your errors regarding my personal stance and what I have said, I hope we can continue our to-date cordial communications on the Q&A with Zahi that we are working on. There you have so far remained objective with your questions and have not completely misquoted me or written misjudgments on my stance.
Best,
Chris
Mahesh should eat some humble pie(swallow his pride and ego) and learn something from this Chris Lock, not to mention that Meier fellow.
Don’t count on it too soon. He wants to “be somebody”, as the old saying goes. Unfortunately there aren’t any specific qualifiers attached to that.
Could someone please kindly clarify for me and anyone else looking in, simple as possible terms so that we dont get the wrong end of the stick. Is what is being said here; that some evidence somewhere points to either some [direct] NASA involvement in the destruction of the original ‘universal barrier’ image, or they had the original image copied from a third party artist [indirect] and it was taken from them, by someone who had access to it, and then it was used to destroy eduards photo, to make it look like eduard had been the con-artist -at the premium international level we might say, well resourced, international man of mystery. Please clarify, thank you, I feel I could have got the wrong idea about what you’ve been talking about, it has got quite complex, if you can summarise/simplify to a paragraph that would be great. Thanks in advance.
I honestly believe that the story is what it is, that he was just careless in releasing the images, maybe because he trusted in people too much, but he was fulfilling a valuable lesson. I am not really an investigator I would make the worst investigator there possibly is, and if say I went self-employed as an investigator I would be dirt poor as no one would hire me. Because I look at the human, my study is in the human, the body language, and the character, what comes out of the mouth, their sincerity, honour, respect for other humans and animals and their environment etc. My investigation technique is not worth any money as it cannot be verified on paper with evidence nor in a law court etc. But there are only so many combinations that are actually available in the universe despite popular belief, so I find it easier just going about things in that way rather than in the traditional legalese law way of the earth human.
Im not judging anyone.
I think the admonition isn’t that we don’t judge but that we don’t judge…falsely.
I agree. On the back of what I said, can I just thank you again Michael, but all the investigators regardless of their stance either way for the work that has been ongoing [an open thank you], because we would all be “dirt poor” if I can reuse that to make the point, had it not been for all this work, by all these different people. Given I mean, that our governments, all of them, have absolutely nothing of value on offer. Thank you, really mean it.
Capital E in Eduard, please.
Sheila,
Just look at the two pictures side by side: http://www.billymeieruforesearch.com/photos-and-videos/outer-space-pictures-universal-barrier/
The pictures are the exact friggen same. And we have NASA saying the painting was finished before Meier had the alleged Great Journey. I don’t know what more you could want. So between the options:
1) Meier took the photo on 5-day journey through outer space while he was crossing the man-made universal barrier connecting us to the DAL universe, and that the reason for the painting that is exactly the same is because ET’s sent unconscious impulses to artists to prepare us for things to come, or
2) Meier took a photo of painting (or a photo of a painting in a magazine or on TV or whatever).
Take your pick. Perhaps Meier did go on the journey, but the picture obviously can’t be evidence for this (in fact, like “arrow” and “MUFON” and others, it definitly supports the hoax hypothesis). I don’t know why this is hard to admit. You’re fooling yourself if you don’t admit it. Granted, again, the case still could be real. But making a stand on the universal photo (or the Ice Man) is …. I don’t even know what that is. Too silly to be even talked about anymore.
Something that would be interesting is if there really is ANY “ironclad” informational corroborations — if you got any of those, please share.
Michael,
“While these shallow thinking skeptics actually claim it, they don’t address EXACTLY what Meier would have had to have done in terms of backdating…”
Why do you continue to talk as if it is impossible Meier could change around the content of the CR’s??? He did, as CF has admitted in regards the ice man CR. Old CR’s are different than the new CR’s sometimes in certain spots evidently.
As this was the most recent of Andy’s post, I’m replying here:
Starting when Meier was 11, in 1948:
Environmental destruction
Vibrational and death rays
Modern day electronic technology
Genetic engineering
Early ventures into space
1951:
Climate change
Increase in frequency and intensity of all forms of storms, floods, earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, etc.
Damage to the ozone layer
Econimic refugees, asylum seekers, etc.
Terrorist extremism and neo-Nazism
Taxation of prostituion
TV and computers most important information media
Drug problem, disharmonious music
Forewarning of th Y2K hysteria
Appearance of new diseases
Diseases transferred form animals to humans
All of the various ills of overpopulation
You now need to comb through the 1958 Letter (http://au.figu.org/content/Prophecies%20and%20Predictions%201951%20and%201958.pdf) yourself, as well as through all of the other prophecies and predictions (http://www.theyfly.com/prophecies-predictions) and drop your “just give me one example” position.
But to get you started here are just a few things already posted on this blog that i stand behind:
Two planets beyond Pluto
Ice Man
Melting glaciers
Rising sea levels
Worldwide radical Islamic terrorism
Russian troop movements to Arkhangelsk
AIDS
Portable phones
Plastic credit cards
Two US-Irag Wars
Jupiter-Io information
Apophis information and NASA changing size estimate
Core of Mercury
Paris and Islamic terrorism
Russia nd China uniting
A-bomb/ozone connection
3-D holographic touch-screen technology
Mirosoft-NSA connection
Earthquakes-oil connection
Ebola epidemic
Water, conditions on Mars
The Fried Egg crater
Israel-Vatican alliance
Mayan drought info
Neanderthal-human interactions
Truth about mother Teresa
Biometric chipping
BP oil spill damage
Fukushima damage
Aggression gene
Screaming sounds foretell volcanic eruptions
Largest dinosaur in Patagonia
Damage to food chain from atomic radiation
Solar superstorm dangers
https://theyflyblog.com/?p=334
https://theyflyblog.com/?p=552
https://theyflyblog.com/?p=761
https://theyflyblog.com/?p=873
https://theyflyblog.com/?p=1085
https://theyflyblog.com/?p=1264
https://theyflyblog.com/?p=1979
https://theyflyblog.com/?p=2490
https://theyflyblog.com/?p=2138
https://theyflyblog.com/?p=2134
https://theyflyblog.com/?p=2738
https://theyflyblog.com/?p=2722
https://theyflyblog.com/?p=2702
https://theyflyblog.com/?p=2634
https://theyflyblog.com/?p=3152
Now, all you have to do to refute these (and the rest) is to show that Meier actualy had access to the same information – not theories, which he probably didn’t have access to either. Please don’t use that coulda, woulda, shoulda stuff, just show the means, motive and opportunity, etc., as already pointed out dozens of times.
Oh, I see thanks.
How about just give me your best one for now.
“Now, all you have to do to refute these (and the rest) is to show that Meier actualy had access to the same information – not theories, which he probably didn’t have access to either. Please don’t use that coulda, woulda, shoulda stuff, just show the means, motive and opportunity, etc., as already pointed out dozens of times.”
But this is not the game. I will only endeavor to find out, “was Meier’s info already known somewhere on earth?” I do not know what Meier had access to, what kind of informed people he may have been talking to in the 70’s, the 50’s etc.
But if it was known, the default rationalist position must be that he got it from terrestrial source. One has to work with this assumption. This is to employ the “organized skepticism” that is the TOUCHSTONE OF THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD.
But if you are just going to say, “prove that he possessed the relevant article!!” after I show it was already known, then this is pointless because we both know I can’t prove this. But you don’t understand burden of proof… so likely this is all pretty pointless.
I will play the game, only if actually alas understand the rules.
Have a real nice day.
No Andy, you obviously don’t have an eye for detail. Billy’s oval in the middle of the picture is nothing like the circle in the painting. They are not the friggin same. Ask yourself how a circle became an oval? That doesn’t happen in the real world. I am not disputing that sensitive people often paint pictures to get us used to what is coming. But I am disputing your and Maheshs claims that Billy took a picture of the painting. Based on what? Some “unknown” archivist who claims the painting was from a painting done in 1975. I don’t buy that at all considering the painter himself can’t even remember when he painted it. NASA has made many claims before which are untrue eg) Apollo 11 landing. Just the fact that Mahesh is unable to even name the NASA archivist is highly suspect. So if Mahesh is unable or unwilling to name the source, how well do you think it would hold up in court? It’s called heresay and is not admissible.
Why is the Iceman too silly to talk about anymore? Mahesh is claiming that based on some scientist who has a rich fantasy life, this proves that the Iceman fought with others before he died and was killed by one of the people he was fighting with and one of those people taking the arrow from Otzi’s back. Well good luck with that, climbing down the ice crevise in the middle of a ice storm just to get back an arrow lol. I’ve proven that when Otzi was found, he was unguarded for a few days in which people prodded and poked and probably took the arrow out of his back because they did a lot of damage to the corpse. I also claim that the evidence of fighting was only due to the epileptic fit he had prior to his demise and injuries due to his fall into the crevice. Have you ever seen anyone who had an epileptic fit? They are exhausted afterwards, like they had been fighting really hard. But Mahesh claims Billy is wrong about how the Iceman died when in fact he isn’t. He has chosen to take the most outlandish scenario and pretend it’s what all the scientists are saying when in fact it’s totally the opposite. The general consensus among scientists is that he died from his fall. Some time in the future, some scientist will come forward and proclaim that Otzi had an epileptic fit prior to his demise. What will you say then? Are you going to claim that scientists have already said this? Because to this day March 2, 2015 none have ever made that claim. So here is a future ironclad prediction for you.
“The case could still be real”. Well Andy if you have not had enough time to figure out if Billy Meier is telling the truth or not, it’s well past the time where you either get it or don’t. Obviously you don’t so what more is there to say?
And Mahesh’s photo analyzing abilities were put to rest by Chris Lock.
Sheila,
Two points. 1) A circle becomes an oval by distorting the height/width of an image.
2) Like Michael, your missing the whole point about the Ice Man. Forget about cause of death stuff. Ice Man is not a corroboration because Meier didn’t publish anything about the Ice Man before it was known, end o’ story.
Elisabeth M admits A) Meier didn’t share ice man info before mummy discovered and CF admits B) “arrow” was not in the early publications of the CR before the arrow was found but only in the CR AFTER the arrow was found.
I don’t know why this is so difficult to grasp. Clearly this is not proof of anything.
And the fact that the OTHER parts of the SAME image aren’t SIMILARLY distorted hasn’t kinda, sorts, maybe, perhaps…told you something?
And of course you contradict yourself because in a previous comment you said that it was only the arrow part that you were claiming was backdated.
There is no doubt that now what you are essentially saying about what Meier has done with his material of evidence is to forge and hoax it not just for one material but almost everything that Mahesh has looked over.
Then frankly what the hell are you bothering to waste your time with all this.
I mean it beggars belief how stupid it is that you are persistently arguing over how right Mahesh is and trying to futilely convince others here
Matt,
The facts speak for themselves. I simply haven’t seen anything that Meier has published that was truly prior-published before it was otherwise known on earth. Not saying it was a hoax. I am saying MH’s claim that the informational evidence proves the case is false if he cannot forward any true example of prior publishing.
And that, as far as I can tell, is all Mahesh is saying. Tell me where I am wrong here. Put in other words, tell me if you agree or disagree with this statement:
The default rational position is that if the info was known somewhere on earth at the time Meier published it, this cannot constitute ‘ironclad’ proof of ET contact. Indeed, the scientific method — with its touchstone of “organized skepticism” — would require this default position.
If you disagree with this, you are either denying the facts or are denying that you wish to take the scientific/rationalist position. It may be that Meier wins on “preponderance of evidence” (51% +) when taking into account the pictures and the witnesses and the info, but the question under debate (per MH’s repeated claims) was that the info evidence proves the case ‘beyond a reasonable doubt’ (97%+ certainty).
Do you think that simply because Meier wrote a bunch of things — none of which represent unique knowledge than no one else knew at the time, as the facts no appear — represents proof beyond a reasonable doubt that Meier is in contact with ET’s? I don’t, and I don’t know anyone that would.
No, what you’re saying is that you relied on another dopey guy’s telling you instead of going through the info I generously, again provided for you.
Not even for a moment to contemplate just how enormously unusual, profound, stunningly amazing that THIS man, at THOSE times, published all THAT information, in the PRE-INTERNET age.
And you wonder why people shake their heads in utter amazement and disbelief at just how incapable of thinking, how truly shallow people have become. Wow.
By the way, regarding what you “haven’t seen” this very APTLY titled blog should help…but I’m not counting on it.
Ok, you did generously provide a lot for me there, and I will go through it. But perhaps we can knock out most of em real quick: Is there any proof Meier published that stuff in in ’48, 51, and 58?
Becuase if we can’t verify those dates, then they are not going to really work for ironclad proof of ET contact for obvious reasons.
Hi everyone, this is Andy. Andy JUST FOUND the Meier case and its information. Fortunately for Andy and all of us, he approaches everything in life with this same kind of scrutiny and logic. Andy is college age but, uniquely, he’s still in the fourth grade in school because he has challenged everything thus far taught to him about ALL of human history.
Nobly demanding proof that every event, war, catastrophe, election, ice age, marriage, invasion, etc., really did happen, he has refused to proceed until he has been given evidence that the documentation for everything still exists.
Because of his devotion to the truth, he actually has only been graduated this far in school as a courtesy to him and his family, since he’s not yet convinced that the dinosaurs were wiped out 65 million years ago because his intellectually noble standards don’t allow him to go on hearsay.
Treat him kindly.
Seems to me I read some time ago that Ptaah has stated “There is NO SUCH THING AS AN ENERGY BARRIER”! So why are you guys MISQUOTING Billy Meier and Ptaah? “This mahash is such a fraud that if he wants to continue to blog here then he damn better had his facts stright and not put such fraudulent inaccurent statements here Mahash”NEEDS to DO HIS HIOMEWORK FIRST BEFORE HE EVEN BLOGS AND OPEN HIS MOUTH”!
How’s it that Terry? Screwed blued and tatooed?
Hey Darcy, #1 I spent a good number of years reading and studying the Pleiadian/Plejaren material in books,booklets and on the internet. #2 Whoa,me with tattoos? You can forget that horrible idea of tattoos. Personally I absolutely HATE tattoos,I DISPISE tattoos. Not only do I think they are UGLY,but tattoos are just NOT healthy and might just cause cancer. I also spent the past few years reading the Meier contact reports which I personally find fascinating and very interesting,however I do wish the P`s would contact more people besides Meier because this world Earth is dying along with it`s star/sun. I try to read and review the spiritual teachings once in a while so as not to forget what learned as apposed to religion and politics and the corporate 1% who think they own this world and tellus how to live with their stupid TV commercials,etc,etc,etc.There you have it Darcy,hope this helps.
Terry read CR 357 it talks about a Third World Fire and that fire is what we people need to understand in order to stop a world war from forming into reality.
Funny that Phil Langdon lives ‘close’ to Switzerland and has never been, even with someone wanting to help him financially do such a thing. Shows how as it seems with him, he is awash in his own beliefs and will most likely never escape them… in this life.
Though he obviously new better, to go up against Michael, as he seems to have never really thought past the pictures and videos and truly knows very little about the actual case. Another hobby for someone to satisfy THEIR continued distorted beliefs.
Something really weird with Billy’s case and the UK. Minus futureofmankind and a handful of those that surround it. Seems it is lacking in a compass that is prevalent -on line- within Canada, Australia, and ‘the land of the free’. Most of those past incarnations must have been the ones headed to the boats in one form or another, long ago. Interesting how people who see the true sides of this case are spread out so far and wide within the physical. Even to those within MUFON.
It shows that the Prophecies can be changed and altered with enough time. Though MUFON is still stricken with filth and idle play, it can be altered to start to look as it should. And it only took mainly one person to do it!
The drums of change for the worst are beating louder and louder, on the horizon, it is time to change the beat within if not for all those around us. As is the case, cause and effect are at play in ways that seem unimaginable to the masses. How to slow down and simplify things deceitfully altered to be beyond recognition. Beyond just even basic thought of the real truth.
Nothing weird about that with the UK Philip you’ve read into it [was going to say too far, but actually its the other way around not far enough] some opinions on the other page, probably seems off because I have been talking about various different things here and there. Europe has a FIGU and the UK is in Europe at the end of the day, europe does not need 50 FIGUs and UK speak english same as canada US australia, as you point out, no weirdness… had it not been for those facts, maybe yes, UK may have in time developed its own figu, and as I said on other page, futureofmankind is basically the english figu, even if its not figu officially, it plugged the gap
actually futureofmankind is technically the Scottish figu if anything, unofficially I mean. Phillip the British just dip in and out of all the countries of the world at the end of the day & to be frank
FIGU Scotland! Haha. Yes indeed Daniel. Though I understand that James is from England and moved to Scotland a short while ago. As did I during the same year funnily enough. Though we have no connection and live in different parts of Scotland. Small world. He’s in a civilised part though. 🙂
Interesting and with the UK’s rich history was just a thought I have never really given any to. Why no attempts in the past to form any group there. As is all just curiosity on my part, as USA obviously doesn’t have anything beyond Michaels monthly meeting either, currently. With so much going on, it is good to see that many different countries can come together for a common cause:) From ten years ago to now, it seems things are definitely slowly moving in the right direction. Mainly because of only a very few’s unending interest, patience, and bravery.
Hi Philip. There are plenty of people in the UK aware of Billy Meier, but people here are still more reserved than those in the rest of the English speaking world, so perhaps choose to not participate online. Perhaps we are more fearful of engaging mouth/foot before brain. 🙂
Yes and can seem quite the opposite here in ‘the land of the free’:) Guess is hard enough to try and put oneself in the middle of the truth of our created world, than try and understand it from a completely different perspective within someone esle’s surroundings.
Seems with all the ‘closet’ folk, is more the norm than not. As being raised by Christians whom were my dad, a closet Atheist and my mom, a closet free thinker. Like a facade to fit in and appeal to the masses. On the surface act as if are one within thinking, and behind close doors say and do another. All the while mixing it all together never knowing what is right or wrong within the swirl of beliefs and truths all mixed together. The ones that never want to talk about it as they know its wrong but just don’t want to know why for to many reasons. At least as it would be and I have seen with the types that keep quite out of their own misunderstandings of what they really think. Though in this sometimes it seems the best and easiest way to find the truth is to just throw oneself out there a find it, and understand it, by interacting and learning from and with like minded woman and men.
I dont believe in that Philip, in pressuring people to do anything, naming it as being in the closet sort of accomplishes that which I think makes people uncomfortable, actually it sort of makes people crazy. Maybe even this is why they feel a good distance is within best interests.
If people dont want to talk about it, its more likely that they have accepted it rather than anything else (accepted what BEAM has said and done with people from another world in disc shaped flying transport, aka metal formed into a disc shape with science just several decades only beyond current comprehension -reading it on an iphone aka high technology -and most people can get the whole evolution thing, they’re grandparents passed peacefully when they were younger, they know generally about the length of the life and the various parameters etc)
Not fear, more probably profundity in thoughts, a step back for some thinking time.
Perhaps a case of foot and mouth diesease?
Relax I was just joking
Hehe
I agree with you Stephen, absolutely, the hit counter on this website evidences what you say. There are several other things that have killed the demand, like the mini-revolution in the 90’s for example, James moore I think was kind of part of that (though I could be wrong), where people were decidedly different ideologically than those that had come before them, indifferent to many different things, politics, social formats difference, created a new way -actually I would argue that those people almost hit the BEAM information head on in terms of ideology, apart from the vegetarian/vegan thing, but that was only adopted by few people.
-the funny part of that Stephen which I have made a point of studying in my own time, was that it occurred in the main, after 1995, the time when the giza heini were removed apparently, with an interesting lead-in up through the end of the 80’s – It all appears very odd on the face of it, unless all kinds of different information is compiled together, included the ideas about impulses and human vibrational frequency. I am mildly confident that the country was pelted by all kinds of different forces up through that time, and I have also studied the traditional elite, privately educated and the whole system of politics and various other bits and pieces to make sense of it, -well it makes sense that the giza heini would have used britain on some level or another to accomplish whatever, given its various attributes/histories etc. -there is a meaningful conversation in there somewhere 🙂
“Mahesh is willing to take one unknown person’s word as truth and is quite willing to disregard everyone else who has ever come forward and stated their name and passed a lie detector test. Mahesh has a lot to learn about investigation if you ask me.”
Sheila, I agree!
Mahesh does not hold information he finds/paints against the Meier case to the same level of information there is for it. He is a poor biased investigator who is against the case – another Karl Korf. He is trying to make a name for himself but he will fade away into nobody worth remembering in the case.
If things carry on the way they are then it is very likely that anyone that speaks about anything will not be listened to by the rest of the world/anyone, because they will already know that what is about to come out of the mouth is going to be absolutely false, wrong, trumped up, egoist, god delusional (as if someone is watching them waiting to applause) -and we all know who is doing it, dont we, atleast we will do, we will see that pattern of behaviour, if there is indeed as the hypothesis goes a pattern, a consistency. Quite important to acknowledge -that is also part of a prophet prophecy too